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Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

So congress is telling Iran, no use in agreeing to any P5+1 deal, they'll only not approve it. Ok, that seems like the nice and proper way to conduct foreign policy.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Point being, its been done before, and it will happen again. Everyone will whine and bitch, until it happens again, then we will switch sides, and still whine and bitch.

If you want an example of illegal intervention, look up Ted Kennedy trying to bride the Russians in 1984 to keep Reagan from being elected.

Or Nixon undermining peace talks in Vietnam to help his presidential chances. Or Reagan working a deal with the Iranian hostage takers to keep the hostages until after the election to help his presidential chances.

I have not heard about this Ted Kennedy/Russian Reagan thing. Gonna have to look it up. Got a link?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

47 traitors, pure and simple.

Unbelievable. At least one of my Republican senators refused to sign that nonsense.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

47 traitors, pure and simple.

Unbelievable. At least one of my Republican senators refused to sign that nonsense.

"Obama Derangement Syndrome" doesn't cut it anymore. It has to be something that fits the new levels they've sunk to, perhaps "Obama Psychosis Syndrome." I was content to roll my eyes through the whole Birther and Benghazi idiocy, but I always did so believing they had limits to their awfulness. Now I'm pretty sure they have no such limits at all.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

"Obama Derangement Syndrome" doesn't cut it anymore. It has to be something that fits the new levels they've sunk to, perhaps "Obama Psychosis Syndrome." I was content to roll my eyes through the whole Birther and Benghazi idiocy, but I always did so believing they had limits to their awfulness. Now I'm pretty sure they have no such limits at all.

I don't think it's mental. I think it orchestrated. As evidenced by the Republican leadership's comments on their main goal was to make Obama a one term prez and the meeting they had on Obama's inauguration to obstruct everything he did.

In short, I don't think ODS is a mental thing, I think acting with ODS it's simply a political strategy written in stone then praying it's contagious.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Their skepticism doesn't make them childish. Their relentless substance-free, base rousing theatrics do that.

Here is the text:

It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system. Thus, we are writing to bring to your attention two features of our Constitution—the power to make binding international agreements and the different character of federal offices—which you should seriously consider as negotiations progress.

First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics. For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then—perhaps decades.

What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.​

The idea that Republicans in Congress - who just folded on amnesty - are "relentless" is laughable.

Principally, the Republicans have no business torpedoing this treaty because no great deeds are forthcoming on their part.

Oh, it's a treaty?!? Because if it's a treaty, then the President is Constitutionally required to send it to the Senate for approval, which the White House has announced it will refuse to do.

They aren't willing to follow it up with an alternative other than more saber rattling. Rattling sabers didn't stop North Korea from getting the bomb,

We didn't saber-rattle to get North Korea to stop. We did.... pretty much what we are doing now when North Korea was getting the bomb. We don't learn, it seems.

and Iran is much more capable. They'll succeed sooner or later if they want to.

Unless we, or the Israelis, decide to stop them.

Every U.S. boot in the Middle East lets ISIS recruit 20 more farmers from the field.

That's a fascinating claim. Can you support it? I know quite a few people in the DoD who would be terribly interested in hearing that, as it has almost no connection at all to what we see on the ground :)

Its a premature fulfillment of the Caliphate Osama bin Laden hoped to accomplish by baiting America into the Middle East.

True enough. Lucky for us, (if rough on the Syrians, Iraqi's, Libyans, and Copts) eh?

I'll also point all that the treaty loses us nothing.

Sure it does. It changes our position from "A nuclear Iran is unacceptable and all options to stop that are on the table" to "An Iran with a the bomb is something we want to avoid during the current administration". If that is incorrect, then I look forward to hearing Democrats make that case. In the Senate.

If the Iranians break it, we can pursue alternatives as planned. If they don't break it and we want to pursue those alternatives anyway, the State Department of the sitting president can simply declare that they broke it,

Lol, are you sure you aren't throwing a childish fit? That is precisely what the Republicans said. :)

Establishing diplomatic and economic relations with Iran at least boxes their government between a rock in a hard place between pursuing nuclear capability and bringing their people jobs and prosperity.

The question becoming A) the Iranians have a well-developed denial and deception capacity, especially with regards to their nuclear program so B) what's the likelihood we would be able to stop them in time? Answer: Low. In the meantime, we give them breathing space and capability while lending legitimacy and aid to the worlds' largest terror exporter; hardly a win.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership


If 47 democrat senators did this to Reagan, you'd be screaming and yelling at the top of your lungs and calling for hangings.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

If 47 democrat senators did this to Reagan, you'd be screaming and yelling at the top of your lungs and calling for hangings.

Keep in mind, Thrilla has already made it clear this is a hilarious joke to him. I guess a nuclear Iran is "funny" in conservative circles.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

If 47 democrat senators did this to Reagan, you'd be screaming and yelling at the top of your lungs and calling for hangings.

Yes. This is the partisan way.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Keep in mind, Thrilla has already made it clear this is a hilarious joke to him. I guess a nuclear Iran is "funny" in conservative circles.

Senior fellows at the Council on Foreign Relations think nuclear balance is a good thing!

Why Iran Should Get the Bomb
Nuclear Balancing Would Mean Stability

Why Iran Should Get the Bomb | Foreign Affairs
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

If 47 democrat senators did this to Reagan, you'd be screaming and yelling at the top of your lungs and calling for hangings.

nope, that's not my style....and i'm not a Reagan sycophant.

tell me more fairy tales about "traitors" though, it's entertaining .... utter nonsense, but entertaining.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Keep in mind, Thrilla has already made it clear this is a hilarious joke to him. I guess a nuclear Iran is "funny" in conservative circles.

a nuclear Iran isn't funny.... watching Obama sycophants freak out is, though.. as well as the whole political theater going on.
it's incredibly entertaining.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

nope, that's not my style....and i'm not a Reagan sycophant.

tell me more fairy tales about "traitors" though, it's entertaining .... utter nonsense, but entertaining.

How would you act if 47 democrat senators decided to do this under a republican president?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Senior fellows at the Council on Foreign Relations think nuclear balance is a good thing!

Why Iran Should Get the Bomb
Nuclear Balancing Would Mean Stability

Why Iran Should Get the Bomb | Foreign Affairs

he makes a solid argument...though I don't completely share his view on the sanity of the Iranian regime
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

he makes a solid argument...though I don't completely share his view on the sanity of the Iranian regime

You mean because of their anti Israel barking?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

How would you act if 47 democrat senators decided to do this under a republican president?

all things being equal, i'd do exactly what i'm doing now.
( I also know you haven't been reading my posts on the matter, or you wouldn't be taking this road)
I'd laugh at hyperpartisans, throw in facts to stymie the more obtuse and absurd among us... and generally enjoy the entertainment value of it all.

you haven't known me for very long.. ask those who have.. I relish the entertainment of political theater far more than picking sides and grasping onto partisan coattails....it's the only thing that keeps me interested in politics ( not policy, politics)
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

a nuclear Iran isn't funny.... watching Obama sycophants freak out is, though.. as well as the whole political theater going on.
it's incredibly entertaining.

So a nuclear Iran isn't funny, but anything that Republicans do that cause a nuclear Iran, especially if they can undermine Obama in the process, is hilarious. Great.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership


We can't stop them, not without (1) feeding this massive movement of people and capital into the neo-Caliph insurgence, and (2) undermining our credibility in most of the significant foreign policy circles around the globe. Its ourselves who would be getting the breathing room from having to attend to yet another rogue state in an era where we need to start concerning ourselves with the growing economic and military capital of Great Powers.

Secondly, unlike crime syndicate North Korea whose foreign interactions are limited to receiving charity, Iran has an actual shot at developing a significant presence in international business and finances. Once they have that position, taking a chance on making a nuke (which first requires kicking out inspectors) will discourage investment and produce new sanctions, probably raising opposition from their own people.

The bottom line is that states with a large enough revenue base will almost inevitably obtain nuclear energy (and therefore the potential for nuclear weapons). Frankly, with the trends in military engineering, its not obvious to me that Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon 10-20 years from now will result in a serious alternation in the balance of power, at least as concerns their relationship to the United States and Israel. The situation with Sunni states might be a little different, but it seems the dynamics there are evolving into the sort the U.S. has with India vs. Pakistan.

I'm almost entirely sure the leadership of Iran is aware that even if they make a nuclear weapon 10-20 years from now, it will have highly limited utility except in their security relations with rival Sunni states (where they will probably be better off pursuing conventional warfare capability anyway).
 
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Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Republicans don't trust Obama...but they don't trust any Democratic President.

not true, I have feeling there was plenty of trust for Bill Clinton, Bill was willing to back off of touchy issues, Obama runs full steam ahead with what he wants.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

To their credit (kind of) conservatives here know that congress screwed up big, which is why they're trying incessantly to deflect their action by saying, "But...Obama hasn't earned our trust!" as if that had any bearing on scuttling a crucial deal to prevent an unfriendly country from attaining the bomb and thus destabilizing the region even more. Rest assured, Iran will walk out of the negotiations now, they'll get the bomb, and Republicans will own it. The conservatives here know deep down that the Republicans ****ed up royally, and that this is something they never would have supported until Obama became their only reason for living and fighting.

This has gone far beyond "derangement" and has now officially escalated to full blown sickness.

Greetings, Cardinal. :2wave:

Obama is attempting to prevent Iran from getting a bomb? Really? They won't even tell anyone where all their underground facilities are! They haven't exactly been the most trustworthy country we've ever dealt with, and they wholeheartedly fund terrorism, and we are supposed to trust them? So far it appears they want to set the terms of any agreement that is made, or there's no deal. Is that in our best interest?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

And which legislative duty is this?

Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 [The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur...

If Obama wasn't a bung-hole and actually worked with the Congress they wouldn't have to remind foreign leaders how the US treaty process is supposed to work.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

That is usually how agreements are made. Until the hand-shake is done...everything is on the tabe.

Obama has never rejected the leadership of Congress to meet with him and structure a position. Never Have I heard either Boehner or McConnell say they requested to meet with the President on this issue and were denied.

Congress cares so much about this agreement that they are sunning themselves at Spring Break at the moment. Don't you wish they even cared as much as you???

Debt limit is reached March 16th. Who cares. Bashing Obama is fun and Congress is out to lunch.
stop right there, there's a whole series of immigration orders that run contrary to this statement, he is blocking bills meant to help the Middle class, you heard of the O&C Timber bill? Obama has threatened to veto that several times, he has refused to budge a pipeline that has been "Studied" for over a decade. this guy does not respect congress period.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

You mean because of their anti Israel barking?

that's certainly part of it... but my opinion rests primarily on the basis of their Islamic theocracy

I do agree they are interested in self preservation( as anyone is)... but I just don't trust a theocracy.. especially one so hateful.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

all things being equal, i'd do exactly what i'm doing now.
( I also know you haven't been reading my posts on the matter, or you wouldn't be taking this road)
I'd laugh at hyperpartisans, throw in facts to stymie the more obtuse and absurd among us... and generally enjoy the entertainment value of it all.

you haven't known me for very long.. ask those who have.. I relish the entertainment of political theater far more than picking sides and grasping onto partisan coattails....it's the only thing that keeps me interested in politics ( not policy, politics)

It is a dumb, and wrong thing to do, whichever side does it..

Hyperpartisans...I laugh at the use that word.
 
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