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Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Simpleχity;1064404440 said:
Obama can negotiate what is known as a sole-executive agreement. Examples of such agreements would be Yalta, Potsdam, Vietnam, and the numerous SOFA agreements with other nations. Although there is nothing in the Constitution which addresses such agreements, they have flourished and the SCOTUS has upheld their validity mainly because there is no long-term commitment. Sole Executive Agreements are considered to be a legal treaty under international law, but not under US law. Successor presidents are not required to honor such agreements, but most do so.
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If you are attempting to negotiate an agreeement that is said to run for 10 years with verification, then an EO would not be appropriate. You would have to be the worst kind of moron to entertain a negotiated nuclear treaty with no expectation of compliance beyond your tenure of office.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Deuce said:
Republicans undermine negotiations with Iran and the right wingers here fall all over themselves to defend it.

because, to them, hurting Obama is more important than protecting America. Or Israel.
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What "negotiations"?

Iran has rejected the idea, France and Canada have as well, Israel hates it, exactly what the **** are the Grubers clinging to?

It's a bad deal, the world want's noting to do with, Obama has set the table back 15 years by handing over the cash FIRST like a rube rug deal, and no agreement will EVER get ratified with this congress.....

So what it is? What is so great about this proposed deal that lets a country hostile to Israel, Canada and the US have nuclear weapons?

Congress is acting on behalf of American and WORLD interests. Iran getting the bomb will mean war.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

CanadaJohn said:
Sorry - but where in the letter does it say that Obama can't negotiate or that Iran shouldn't negotiate with Obama. It does say, however, that any deal Obama makes will be time limited to his remaining term in office unless Congressional approval is forthcoming. Is that wrong?
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It is wrong, it's very wrong. It's purpose is to undermine the President in the negotiation and it has resulted in Iran stating that the US is untrustworthy. It gives hardliners in Iran that don't want a deal more fuel to say "see....no matter what we agree to there will be sanctions...we told you negotiations were worthless." It's borderline a violation of the Logan Act. There's a reason diplomacy should be done through one voice in the international scene...there's a reason the Logan Act was passed.

As for the sanctions, the US ones are primarily US law, not executive orders. So any deal that expects to have US sanctions end, would need to have US Congressional action to rescind those laws, would it not?
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it's a mix of legislation and executive orders.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ttwtt78640 said:
Nonsense. You would freak out if a republicant president decided to undertake federal income tax reform by executive action - simply modifying the process of filing/auditing, changing only some numbers and/or dates.
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No I wouldn't...because there's no way it would stand up in court. Shielding people from deportation has been done through executive orders for decades. Not to the extent of this one, but he's not the first.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Ockham said:
Above and beyond? No - no more than any other President from one party and a congress of the other party. I also do not see Obama going above and beyond to work with Republicans - actually he has gone out of his way to accuse and disparage them in one sentence, and then criticize them for not working with him in the very next sentence. That Republicans are now slapping him in the face shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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I can slightly agree with this on a more recent scale. It's obvious to everyone that Obama no longer cares to try to make anyone happy, or to work with anyone purposefully trying to work against him. The State of the Union address made this very obvious. It's not a surprise to me, or anyone, that "Republicans are now slapping him in the face," aside from the fact that Republicans have always[\I] been "slapping him in the face." You even stated yourself that they didn't go above and beyond to work with him.

Ockham said:
:lamo Yeah because only Obama is a partisan in Washington ... that will be the day.
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I'm confused here. Are you saying that I'm trying to suggest that Obama only works with the Democrats and that this statement is incorrect? Or did you word this wrong? I think that there are several issues, including the ACA, where Obama was too bipartisan when he should have really stuck to his original plans from the get go. I think that most politicians in Washington ARE very partisan and that usually any attempts for them to be bipartisan become a waste of time since everyone is funded by some super rich person (or group) that they're trying to appease.

Ockham said:
The issue isn't partisanship - America was born on partisanship.
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Not to the degree that it is today. This country was not founded on the idea that American politics should turn into a reality television show and that "the most popular person" should win a rose to move onto the next round. That's where we stand today. We are not developing anything new, in a bipartisan fashion, that will allow everyone to "win." Instead we're wasting money and time with all of these idiots fighting with each other and stretching truths (Republicans and[\I] Democrats) to try to gain a higher following so that some unnamed rich group will fund them in their political journey to do the same crap all over again. This country most definitely was not founded on the same level that we're at today.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Ockham said:
The issue is working with both sides to get common agreement on those things where common agreement exists and to give and take where agreement does not exist - where possible.
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Which, in the beginning, was definitely what Obama attempted to do. We've wasted so much time with "the sides trying to work together" when it fact it was all just a show that was being put on so that the Republicans could scream that Obama was being mean and the Democrats could back down and give them what they wanted to avoid another government shutdown. Keep in mind I'm definitely not saying the Democrats are innocent in all of this, I'm just saying that this idea that Republicans have been trying really hard to work with Obama and Obama has just been a mean dictator throughout his entire presidency is asinine.

Ockham said:
Clinton seemed to be able to do that in his second term - however my "belief" since you are interested in it, is that Obama has neither the ability nor the want to work with anyone but those who agrees with him.
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I can see how you'd come to that conclusion, but the truth of the matter is that he is not interested in working with anyone who strictly wants to create fights and drama for no damned reason. If a Republican that disagreed with him came up with an alternative solution, it's obvious he'd pay attention to it. The problem is that when Obama returns his corrects to the alternative solution to make it more bipartisan, that's when the Republicans lose their minds saying that Obama isn't working with them. You can't expect that Obama says he wants one thing, then a Republican submits an alternate avenue that is completely one-sided, and then to have Obama just say, "Oh, okay, yeah, let's just do that." The whole idea is that he should be able to say, "Okay, I see what you want but let's change it this way and go from there, what do you think?" But that hasn't ever been the case. From the beginning the Republicans have been turning in their addendum and corrections (which is completely acceptable), but they seem to be wanting their changes to just be accepted immediately without more discussion and changes. THAT is how you come to a conclusion and a plan. Not just "here is what we want and if you won't just accept what we're saying then we're going to scream to FOX News that you're being mean to us."

So yes, you're correct that at this point in his presidency he no longer cares to try to do the back and forth game with Republicans. If they submit something that they're really willing to work on to come to an actual agreement, I'm sure it'll work itself out. However when an ACA reversal bill comes to his desk for the 50+ time in seven years... come on. Should Obama not represent his supporters?

Ockham said:
He makes grand claims of transparency when everyone sees he and his administration is not. He lies to the American people about so very many things then blames those things on Republicans. Obama's problem is he is by nature an ideologue - and no matter what he cannot and will not compromise while claiming publicly, that's all he ever wants. Republicans in this case are irrelevant since Obama has a "pen and a phone" you see.
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I do not support everything Obama has done. I've never claimed to. However in this case we'll have to agree to disagree because I believe that you're blinding following this notion that Republicans have done everything they can work with Obama and Obama, from day one, has been a dictator. That's ridiculous. Obama has made decisions I don't agree with, I'm more than willing to admit that. There is no way that anyone can twist and turn facts into "Obama has never tried to work with Republicans" though. That's just blind ignorance and a waste of my time.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

iliveonramen said:
Nobody in this thread has any idea what is in the agreement yet want to undermine and attack it because....well Obama.
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You hide **** and lie your entire term, and this one we are supposed to believe?


he's handing Iran the bomb.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Ockham said:
Absolutely they have. You're argument would be much easier however if Obama and his administration were genuine in their view to compromise and seek partnership with Republicans - however the direct opposite is true. Given Obama's been the same since running for election in 2007, there is no surprise on my part at all that Republicans now, who control both Houses of Congress, will give him a taste of his own medicine to go along with his legacy. You see... it takes two to tango.
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Hmm, see there is the problem. You made up your mind about Obama before he even started and decided he was a worthless president. Obama has changed a lot since the very beginning, but you're very blind to this because you've hated him from the beginning. When he first started he was very willing to work with everyone. If your eyes had been open and you had paid attention to anything other than FOX News you would have seen that. It's very, very obvious that his interest in going round and round with Republicans in his last four years has changed. He's a completely different person at this point.

The whole point of democracy is to work together, back and forth, to come up with an agreement that benefits as many people as possible. So let's say Obama says, "Let's open the borders to allow anyone and everyone to come in without question, what do you think?" The Republicans come back with, "No, we should actually kill every Mexican and Muslim in this country without question because they're all terrorists that are spreading measles and trying to force us into Sharia Law." Clearly, even you can see, that both sides are too extreme. The problem is that because Obama doesn't just say, "Okay, you're right, let's just kill all Mexicans and Muslims," suddenly he "is refusing to work with them. Instead he says, "Okay, well no, that's not going to work. How about we [do this instead]." Now he is a dictator that isn't working with Republicans. This has been happening the whole time he has been president and so yes, he has changed significantly because why keep screaming and battling and fighting with people who don't actually want to come to a neutral agreement? What the hell is the point anymore?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Ockham said:
No one, from the President to Congress were forced to do anything.... frankly I think they wanted to do it. As I already said, this is a reaction by Republicans to the White Houses' constant ideologue actions and in some cases, expansion beyond the law of executive power. Obama's smarmy arrogance is just the cherry on top.
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False equivalency. The President has to negotiate difficult deals with foreign leaders. The Republicans were not required to undermine him. Saying it's all good because it's just the atmosphere that's been created is a cop out.

Out of curiosity, do you believe Gingrich was right?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

iliveonramen said:
No I wouldn't...because there's no way it would stand up in court. Shielding people from deportation has been done through executive orders for decades. Not to the extent of this one, but he's not the first.
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Deciding not to audit all tax returns and to prioritize those that are audited is also common practice. Should we exempt those that claim children or by some other class distinction?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ReverendHellh0und said:
You hide **** and lie your entire term, and this one we are supposed to believe?


he's handing Iran the bomb.
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Why do you believe this?
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Fearandloathing said:
Little point they all like to forget about....
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Yep. It doesnt fit the narrative. Neither does the fact that as soon as the GOP took control of the House they sent literally hundreds of passed legislative actions that Reid refused to take action on.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ttwtt78640 said:
Deciding not to audit all tax returns and to prioritize those that are audited is also common practice. Should we exempt those that claim children or by some other class distinction?
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By all means, let a Republican President decide to shield tax dodgers.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Deuce said:
Why do you believe this?
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My healthcare went up, my coverage went down. We weren't allowed to read the bill
The internet is about to become a utility, we weren't allowed to read the bill.
Lied about benghazi
lied about the "Arab spring"
misjudged ISIS
lied about putting all legislation on the internet 5 days prior


among other things, he is untrustworthy.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

ReverendHellh0und said:
My healthcare went up, my coverage went down. We weren't allowed to read the bill
The internet is about to become a utility, we weren't allowed to read the bill.
Lied about benghazi
lied about the "Arab spring"
misjudged ISIS
lied about putting all legislation on the internet 5 days prior


among other things, he is untrustworthy.
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If I told you that Obama was feeding Christian children to cannibals, would you believe me? He is, after all, untrustworthy.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Iranian Foreign Minister told the pugs to **** off and did some schooling on international law:

Here it is, via Metaquest:

"Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that "in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.

Zarif expressed astonishment that some members of US Congress find it appropriate to write to leaders of another country against their own President and administration. He pointed out that from reading the open letter, it seems that the authors not only do not understand international law, but are not fully cognizant of the nuances of their own Constitution when it comes to presidential powers in the conduct of foreign policy
Foreign Minister Zarif added that "I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that "change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Irans peaceful nuclear program." He continued "I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law.

More here: Iran Foreign Minister Gives GOP Senators A Dose Of Reality Medicine
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Deuce said:
If I told you that Obama was feeding Christian children to cannibals, would you believe me? He is, after all, untrustworthy.
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Of course not. stop trying to paint those who don't approve of the current administration as kooks, it makes you look like an extremist. ;)
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

VanceMack said:
Yep. It doesnt fit the narrative. Neither does the fact that as soon as the GOP took control of the House they sent literally hundreds of passed legislative actions that Reid refused to take action on.
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Obama's entire legend is steeped in image, based now on the blame game. Every one of his self claims was inflated, his promises grandiose - "i five days we will mark the point in history when the oceans stopped rising....."

There was nothing there to begin with...a cloud of myth based on lies.

So the first sign of trouble, the FIRST challenge and..."I inherited this mess."

I cannot say enough how the rookie Obama blew it for America when he chose to make "enemies" out of his fellow American legislators. Now he has a war he is losing at home, and five or six he's losing around the world.

The fight with congress now is a double blame game. The Republicans will shove as much legislation at him, make Democrats in congress work overtime, and get them both to be seen as the party of "no"

The first shot was the Keystone pipeline bill.....what even Republicans haven't figured out is that was permanent.....forever. The Keystone deal will now never be completed and the US will lose out, and lose face world wide fr having gone back on a deal with America's best friend. What does that tell other world leaders wanting to deal with Obama?

So a year and a half from now, they will have a headline and talking point about how Obama VETOED America and it's allies...
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Fearandloathing said:
Obama's entire legend is steeped in image, based now on the blame game. Every one of his self claims was inflated, his promises grandiose - "i five days we will mark the point in history when the oceans stopped rising....."

There was nothing there to begin with...a cloud of myth based on lies.

So the first sign of trouble, the FIRST challenge and..."I inherited this mess."

I cannot say enough how the rookie Obama blew it for America when he chose to make "enemies" out of his fellow American legislators. Now he has a war he is losing at home, and five or six he's losing around the world.

The fight with congress now is a double blame game. The Republicans will shove as much legislation at him, make Democrats in congress work overtime, and get them both to be seen as the party of "no"

The first shot was the Keystone pipeline bill.....what even Republicans haven't figured out is that was permanent.....forever. The Keystone deal will now never be completed and the US will lose out, and lose face world wide fr having gone back on a deal with America's best friend. What does that tell other world leaders wanting to deal with Obama?

So a year and a half from now, they will have a headline and talking point about how Obama VETOED America and it's allies...
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Nothing beats his standard response to any and everything his administration is involved with...

 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

VanceMack said:
If you are attempting to negotiate an agreeement that is said to run for 10 years with verification, then an EO would not be appropriate. You would have to be the worst kind of moron to entertain a negotiated nuclear treaty with no expectation of compliance beyond your tenure of office.
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Obama doesn't give 2 rat ****s about what kinds of a precarious situation the country is going to be in one day after he leaves office, nor what sort of an ungodly mess he leaves the next president to clean up, regardless of which party they are from. That seems pretty clear.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

laurcunningham said:
Which, in the beginning, was definitely what Obama attempted to do.
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No he didn't. He spent the first 3 years blaming Bush for everything and anything.

laurcunningham said:
I can see how you'd come to that conclusion, but the truth of the matter is that he is not interested in working with anyone who strictly wants to create fights and drama for no damned reason.
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Well there is a reason he just doesn't agree with the reason.

laurcunningham said:
If a Republican that disagreed with him came up with an alternative solution, it's obvious he'd pay attention to it.
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You mean like Paul Ryan, who he then publicly embarassed? Perhaps that's what you mean by "pay attention".

laurcunningham said:
The problem is that when Obama returns his corrects to the alternative solution to make it more bipartisan, that's when the Republicans lose their minds saying that Obama isn't working with them. You can't expect that Obama says he wants one thing, then a Republican submits an alternate avenue that is completely one-sided, and then to have Obama just say, "Oh, okay, yeah, let's just do that." The whole idea is that he should be able to say, "Okay, I see what you want but let's change it this way and go from there, what do you think?"
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But when the Republicans are ignored and not included in the ACA, and are not allowed to submit modifications to the bill when the Democrats ran things - how is that looking for bipartisanship? How is that asking "What do you think?" What you say is simply not true though it sounds reasonable if Obama actually would have done that.


laurcunningham said:
So yes, you're correct that at this point in his presidency he no longer cares to try to do the back and forth game with Republicans.
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He never cared. The myth and narrative that he tried so hard in the beginning is amusing though.
laurcunningham said:
Should Obama not represent his supporters?
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Obama should represent ALL Americans, not just his supporters. Unfortunately, that's not what he's about.

laurcunningham said:
I do not support everything Obama has done. I've never claimed to. However in this case we'll have to agree to disagree because I believe that you're blinding following this notion that Republicans have done everything they can work with Obama and Obama, from day one, has been a dictator. That's ridiculous. Obama has made decisions I don't agree with, I'm more than willing to admit that. There is no way that anyone can twist and turn facts into "Obama has never tried to work with Republicans" though. That's just blind ignorance and a waste of my time.
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Obama has acted on his own, legislated with his pen and phone and outside of his authority now twice as the SCOTUS has ruled. He's done more damage to this country than he's done good - which is where I think history will put him ... at the bottom of the list of Presidents, though, he always will be the first black President.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

iliveonramen said:
I have no trust in Republicans...not only do they lie but they try and re-write history



Mitch McConnell with a blatant lie...it was the Obama administration in 2012 that went around getting support for sanctions against Iran. It was Republicans that were talking red-line and military options.
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If you are a supporter of President Pinocchio, you might want to be a little less free to accuse his opponents of dishonesty. Mr. Obama, in the best commie tradition, is a shameless, habitual liar.
 
Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

Cardinal said:
False equivalency. The President has to negotiate difficult deals with foreign leaders. The Republicans were not required to undermine him.
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Obama doesn't have to negotiate anything... he has discretion to do something or nothing. No one is forcing him as you clearly stated so there is no false equivalency.

laurcunningham said:
Saying it's all good because it's just the atmosphere that's been created is a cop out.
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It's a reaction to Obama's action and far overdue.

laurcunningham said:
Out of curiosity, do you believe Gingrich was right?
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That's rather vague even for you. Can you be more specific since Gingrich has been a public figure for 40+ years..... right about what. :lamo
 
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