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Thread: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

  1. #261
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. The President has the greatest freedom of maneuver in foreign policy, but foreign policy is not the executives sole prerogative any more than domestic policy is Congress's. You may have noticed how both the House and the Senate have a Foreign Relations Committee?
    I'm mentioned multiple times that the Senate advises and consents on foreign policy. If you're going to just quote segments of a long going conversation to argue against some extreme position I didn't take then don't respond.

    Yeah. It's Republicans who decided to make foreign policy a partisan matter and establish the precedent of publicly disagreeing with a Presidents' policy platform in a way that might damage it's implementation.
    Republican Congress members visited as well on "fact finding" missions (as per the article). There's also a large difference...in that the Democratic Congress wasn't actively trying to undermine the Bush administration. The "foul" here was that Bush wanted no engagement with Syria yet Republican Congressmembers were visiting.

    Republicans warned Iran that the administration is attempting to sideline Congress in a questionable manner, making any deal with him shaky in order to make it harder for the President to give them nukes. Nancy Pelosi went to meet with a leader whose forces were actively aiding in the murder of US troops in Iraq and who was a major terrorist sponsor on top of being a massive human rights abuser in order to help protect him from administration pressure. Forgive me if I take Democrats being shocked - shocked! - to find gambling going on in Ricks Catina with a grain of salt.
    As did....REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS DURING THAT SAME TIME! Read your own article.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  2. #262
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    fair enough... though i disagree they are even borderline violating the act, due to the inherent authority their office provides.
    So at what point do Congress members go from advising and consenting to actually conducting US foreign policy outside of the executive branch? You would agree that's not the role of Congress correct?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    No agreement exists right now. The parties are still negotiating.

    Having said that, I believe the better course would have been the Senate's declaring its intent to take up any agreement for review rather than the clumsy approach that was pursued via the letter.
    I agree..which is my main issue....if Congress doesn't like whatever agreement is finalized they can take action through legislation. They can advise the President and the administration on what they will not agree to. There role in foreign policy is not to actively undermine current negotiations.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    not true, I have feeling there was plenty of trust for Bill Clinton, Bill was willing to back off of touchy issues, Obama runs full steam ahead with what he wants.
    I see people talk about the Clinton years as if it was different....impeachment proceedings, government shut downs, constant attacks on the president. Take off the rose colored glasses, the Clinton Presidency and Republican Congress was the most antagonistic relationship between the two branches since Harry Truman.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Isn't THAT the problem? "We have to pass it, before we can see what's in it"...? How many times will we run to kick the football while Lucy pulls it away at the last moment....?
    I would say it's a problem except that the agreement is still being hammered out. It's an active negotiation between Iran and 6 other countries.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So at what point do Congress members go from advising and consenting to actually conducting US foreign policy outside of the executive branch? You would agree that's not the role of Congress correct?
    "conducting foreign policy" is a bit of a muddy term really... I mean, it's outside of Senate powers to negotiate agreements with foreign nations... but it's not outside of their powers to have communications with those foreign nations as part of their legislative duties.... I think it pretty much depends on the substance of their communications.

    in regards to the letter they (stupidly) sent, there are no negotiations, no demands, no terms... nothing of the sort. So , while it's stupid, it can't be construed as "conducting foreign policy" outside of their legislative duties....

    the best argument about the letter is that it's stupid and misguided... and it seems to be backfiring on them due to that.... but legally speaking, there's no case against it.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I see people talk about the Clinton years as if it was different....impeachment proceedings, government shut downs, constant attacks on the president. Take off the rose colored glasses, the Clinton Presidency and Republican Congress was the most antagonistic relationship between the two branches since Harry Truman.
    but they were able to work together to get some things done...
    the same thing with Reagan and the Democratic led congress... antagonistic, but they got **** done at the end of the day.

    this stuff is a bit different... we're witnessing a new level of antagonistic behavior here, by both Congress and the President..... unfortunately, none of them are competent enough to end it and get **** done.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree..which is my main issue....if Congress doesn't like whatever agreement is finalized they can take action through legislation. They can advise the President and the administration on what they will not agree to. There role in foreign policy is not to actively undermine current negotiations.
    how does the Senate go about "advising and consenting" to a finalized agreement that is not submitted to them for consideration?.. how does that work?

    you guys are operating under the assumption that the President is going to get the deal done, then submit it to the Senate for consideration for further action or legislation.
    it's an odd assumption due to the President openly declaring he will not be submitting the agreement to the Senate, and furthermore, that he will be reversing existing law pertaining to sanctions, all on his own executive authority.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    how does the Senate go about "advising and consenting" to a finalized agreement that is not submitted to them for consideration?.. how does that work?

    you guys are operating under the assumption that the President is going to get the deal done, then submit it to the Senate for consideration for further action or legislation.
    it's an odd assumption due to the President openly declaring he will not be submitting the agreement to the Senate, and furthermore, that he will be reversing existing law pertaining to sanctions, all on his own executive authority.
    Other than actually voting on an agreement Congress has the power to pass

    -resolutions and policy statement
    -legislative directives
    -legislative restrictions/funding denials

    they can also provide
    -informal advice
    -legislative pressure

    as well as exercise it's power of oversight.

    Congresses' that have different views than a President have been doing this for hundreds of years and it's worked out pretty well.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    but they were able to work together to get some things done...
    the same thing with Reagan and the Democratic led congress... antagonistic, but they got **** done at the end of the day.

    this stuff is a bit different... we're witnessing a new level of antagonistic behavior here, by both Congress and the President..... unfortunately, none of them are competent enough to end it and get **** done.
    A Democratic controlled congress has never acted the same way Republican led congresses have. The closest was when Democrats had power under George W Bush but the common variable here? A Republican led Congress.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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