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Thread: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

  1. #231
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Here is the text of the letter:

    It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system. Thus, we are writing to bring to your attention two features of our Constitution—the power to make binding international agreements and the different character of federal offices—which you should seriously consider as negotiations progress.

    First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

    Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics. For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then—perhaps decades.

    What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

    We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.


    Please point out where you feel their understanding of governance is so sharply mistaken?






    Look. I realize this is The Talking Point That Has To Be as there is a bit of desperation to get the conversation away from Hillary's emails/lies/whathaveyou; but seriously, ya'll are smarter than to fall for this.
    I see you're going full hack mode with the Hillary stuff. My bad for thinking you might be better than that.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  2. #232
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Current polls suggest there are lots of conservatives that want that war mongering liar, Netanyahu...or the murderering dictator, Putin... to be their leader instead Obama....so what makes you so different?
    OK, so you are arguing from Crazytown. No need to go further with this.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  3. #233
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Nobody in this thread has any idea what is in the agreement yet want to undermine and attack it because....well Obama.
    Isn't THAT the problem? "We have to pass it, before we can see what's in it"...? How many times will we run to kick the football while Lucy pulls it away at the last moment....?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  4. #234
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Here is the text of the letter:

    It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system. Thus, we are writing to bring to your attention two features of our Constitution—the power to make binding international agreements and the different character of federal offices—which you should seriously consider as negotiations progress.

    First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

    Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics. For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then—perhaps decades.

    What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

    We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.


    Please point out where you feel their understanding of governance is so sharply mistaken?
    There's a difference between explaining a constitutional process and actually carrying it out. The Senators could have made all the points they did in their letter after an agreement had been reached during the Senate's review of the agreement. The President cannot bar the Senate from reviewing such agreements. Instead, it weighed in with a letter to a foreign government during the diplomatic process when no such agreement has been reached and prospects remain uncertain. That's where the problem exists and it's a lack of understanding about implementation (unless one wants to attribute other motives to the letter e.g. a preemptive bid to blow up the negotiations).

    The Senate should have waited until there was an agreement and then pressed for its submission for ratification. Failing such submission, it could still have pursued various legislative remedies. Moreover, if the Iran misses its March deadline, which remains a possibility, the Senate can readily act to renew suspended sanctions, etc. Those are examples of two points where Senate action would have been appropriate and much closer to the process laid out in the Constitution.

    Instead, the Senators intervened prematurely. Weighing in as directly as the Senators did with a letter to a foreign government is technically not prohibited by the Constitution. However, it is not consistent with the process set forth by the Framers or their further articulation of such principles in the Federalist Papers.

    ook. I realize this is The Talking Point That Has To Be as there is a bit of desperation to get the conversation away from Hillary's emails/lies/whathaveyou; but seriously, ya'll are smarter than to fall for this.
    Secretary Clinton's use of a private e-mail account is entirely another matter. If anything, the letter diverted attention from that issue. Moreover, there will be ample time during the campaign process for candidates in both Parties to raise questions about that issue and doing so is fair game considering that, among other things, private e-mail accounts could be more vulnerable to hacking, etc.

  5. #235
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Or Nixon undermining peace talks in Vietnam to help his presidential chances. Or Reagan working a deal with the Iranian hostage takers to keep the hostages until after the election to help his presidential chances.

    I have not heard about this Ted Kennedy/Russian Reagan thing. Gonna have to look it up. Got a link?
    Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit - Forbes

  6. #236
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Oh please. "Obama is handing Iran nukes" isn't extremist?


    Nope.

    We handed NK nukes, what makes you think Obama's legacy hunting isn't just as short sighted?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #237
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    47 traitors, pure and simple.

    Unbelievable. At least one of my Republican senators refused to sign that nonsense.



    Traitors? Treason is a strong accusation, I am not sure you know what it means.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #238
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    "Obama Derangement Syndrome" doesn't cut it anymore. It has to be something that fits the new levels they've sunk to, perhaps "Obama Psychosis Syndrome." I was content to roll my eyes through the whole Birther and Benghazi idiocy, but I always did so believing they had limits to their awfulness. Now I'm pretty sure they have no such limits at all.



    Oh god, and still, any criticism of the messiah god king, even at this late juncture in his failed presidency must be a "derangement".... /facepalm
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #239
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I don't think it's mental. I think it orchestrated. As evidenced by the Republican leadership's comments on their main goal was to make Obama a one term prez and the meeting they had on Obama's inauguration to obstruct everything he did.

    In short, I don't think ODS is a mental thing, I think acting with ODS it's simply a political strategy written in stone then praying it's contagious.



    hooray left wing talking points!

    daily kos?

    crooksandliars.com?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #240
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Principally, the Republicans have no business torpedoing this treaty because no great deeds are forthcoming on their part.


    The US cannot enter into a treaty without congressional approval.


    There are executive agreements, that he can do, but he must notify congress in 60 days, who then can vote it down.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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