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Thread: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

  1. #221
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Gee, imagine admiring the strength and determination of a leader of a US ally. Oh, the shame. I wonder how many admired Churchill during Roosevelt's Presidency.
    The "strength and determination" of an "ally" who receives billions in aid from us and doesn't want it to stop. You think he doesn't have an ulterior motive here? Iran has enough conventional weapons to turn Tel Aviv into a crater. If Iran was that hellbent on destroying Israel, regardless of retribution, they would have done it already.

    The Iranian government is a bunch of first-rate assholes, but I've seen nothing to indicate that they are suicidal.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Face it...

    Obama could have avoided all this conflict he's generated since the last election if he had only faced reality instead of deciding to work against the wishes of Congress from the get-go. I think it's already been said in this thread, but "you reap what you sow".
    The Republicans could have avoided it, too, if they hadn't decided from day one they were going to screw this guy like no president has been screwed before.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The Senate has essentially stated that any agreement, no matter what it is, will be deemed unacceptable. It is a clear attempt to undermine the president, no matter the outcome.
    And in the long-run, it sets a bad precedent.

    At the same time, it also says much about the leadership capacity (or lack thereof) of the Senator who initiated the letter. He was being positioned as a leader. The letter, because it shows little or no understanding/regard for the foreign policy process of the U.S. and implications of damaging it, signals to me that the Senator is anything but a leader. Leaders understand the big picture. They are aware of the consequences of their choices or actions. They understand the importance of timing. The only thing we saw is that the first-term Senator built support among some of his colleagues, albeit not bipartisan support, which is not exactly a big accomplishment in the contemporary partisan atmosphere. But when it comes to the ends of such leadership and its consequences, he fell far short. In short, his displayed a serious leadership deficit and I don't think lack of experience is a big factor, as the issues involved were not policy specific but rather general attributes of leadership.

  4. #224
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The Republicans could have avoided it, too, if they hadn't decided from day one they were going to screw this guy like no president has been screwed before.
    Actually, it was the voters who screwed Obama in the last election by taking his Senate away from him. Too bad he doesn't care to listen to the citizens.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    And in the long-run, it sets a bad precedent.

    At the same time, it also says much about the leadership capacity (or lack thereof) of the Senator who initiated the letter. He was being positioned as a leader. The letter, because it shows little or no understanding/regard for the foreign policy process of the U.S. and implications of damaging it, signals to me that the Senator is anything but a leader. Leaders understand the big picture. They are aware of the consequences of their choices or actions. They understand the importance of timing. The only thing we saw is that the first-term Senator built support among some of his colleagues, albeit not bipartisan support, which is not exactly a big accomplishment in the contemporary partisan atmosphere. But when it comes to the ends of such leadership and its consequences, he fell far short. In short, his displayed a serious leadership deficit and I don't think lack of experience is a big factor, as the issues involved were not policy specific but rather general attributes of leadership.
    The other 46 idiots who signed on to this travesty, most of whom have been in office far longer than the few weeks Senator Cotton has, should have known better. The GOP does make a fantastic circular firing squad when they really put their minds to it.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, it was the voters who screwed Obama in the last election by taking his Senate away from him. Too bad he doesn't care to listen to the citizens.
    This has little to do with the electorate. Stop playing partisan games. Blaming this on Obama is not going to work.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The other 46 idiots who signed on to this travesty, most of whom have been in office far longer than the few weeks Senator Cotton has, should have known better. The GOP does make a fantastic circular firing squad when they really put their minds to it.
    It was a sorry and short-sighted spectacle. It doesn't provide a great deal of governance confidence.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    How would you act if 47 democrat senators decided to do this under a republican president?
    I will see your proposed "Letter explaining the American constitutional balance of powers" and raise you a "Delegation headed by Nancy Pelosi to help relieve the political pressure that President Assad was coming under from the Bush Administration while the Assad government was still helping to kill American servicemembers in Iraq, supporting major global terrorist organizations, trying to secretly develop nuclear weapons, and massively abusing the human rights of his people"

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    It was a sorry and short-sighted spectacle. It doesn't provide a great deal of governance confidence.
    Here is the text of the letter:

    It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system. Thus, we are writing to bring to your attention two features of our Constitution—the power to make binding international agreements and the different character of federal offices—which you should seriously consider as negotiations progress.

    First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

    Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics. For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then—perhaps decades.

    What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

    We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.


    Please point out where you feel their understanding of governance is so sharply mistaken?






    Look. I realize this is The Talking Point That Has To Be as there is a bit of desperation to get the conversation away from Hillary's emails/lies/whathaveyou; but seriously, ya'll are smarter than to fall for this.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The Senate has essentially stated that any agreement, no matter what it is, will be deemed unacceptable. It is a clear attempt to undermine the president, no matter the outcome.
    That is false. The Senate declared that any agreement that was strictly an executive branch maneuver (which is what the Administration intends to make it) can be undone by any following Executive (which is correct). Nowhere did they state or intimate that "any agreement no matter what will be deemed unacceptable", and, in fact, in ending the letter by hoping that nuclear negotiations progress, stated rather the opposite.

    ....Did you bother to read the document you are oh-so-upset about before you decided to denounce it? It's not exactly a 1,000+ page remake of the healthcare sector. It's four paragraphs and a sign-off sentence.

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