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Thread: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership [W:251]

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It is wrong. There's a reason the Logan Act was passed...because dealing with foreign countries isn't like a domestic squabble over domestic legislation. There's one voice and one main branch....the Executive Branch. The Senate ratifies long term treaties and Congress declares wars...two of the most extreme foreign actions the country takes...but the President is in charge of foreign policy.
    No. The President has the greatest freedom of maneuver in foreign policy, but foreign policy is not the executives sole prerogative any more than domestic policy is Congress's. You may have noticed how both the House and the Senate have a Foreign Relations Committee?

    Republicans have this idea in their head that if they don't like the President they can pretend he doesn't exist and undermine him at every opportunity. The fact is, what they've done is pretty much push away Democrats that may of sided with them because they've turned foreign policy into a partisan affair. Once again though...the Republicans have opened a door so don't be surprised when Democrats walk through it in the future.
    Oh, the Irony.



    Yeah. It's Republicans who decided to make foreign policy a partisan matter and establish the precedent of publicly disagreeing with a Presidents' policy platform in a way that might damage it's implementation.


    Republicans warned Iran that the administration is attempting to sideline Congress in a questionable manner, making any deal with him shaky in order to make it harder for the President to give them nukes. Nancy Pelosi went to meet with a leader whose forces were actively aiding in the murder of US troops in Iraq and who was a major terrorist sponsor on top of being a massive human rights abuser in order to help protect him from administration pressure. Forgive me if I take Democrats being shocked - shocked! - to find gambling going on in Ricks Catina with a grain of salt.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I'm a bit weary of hearing Republicans ranting about why they don't have to adhere to simple virtues like that when they fully expect Democrats to abide by them during Republican Administrations.
    Precisely. The history of one party disagreeing with the others' foreign policy regardless of who is President goes way back.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Obama is trying to work out an incredibly difficult deal to prevent Iran from getting the bomb,
    What in the world makes you think this? Obama is trying to work out any deal with Iran in order to have something to wave in the air and declare Peace In Our Time with. Whether Iran get's the bomb or not is strictly secondary - the main provision of the agreement seems to be that Iran not build a bomb until Obama is no longer President and it isn't his problem, and in order to protect it from review, the Administration has simply declared that it will not take it to the Senate.

    and the Republicans in congress and all (unless I've missed any exceptions) of the ones in this thread think it's a hilarious little game to play for political points. The children here are the conservatives, who have once again proven themselves unfit to govern.
    Yeah. Republicans are the children because they aren't naïve enough to think that a nuclear Iran can be "managed" or is the "sensible" solution, and that makes them unfit to govern.

    But Democrat leadership traveling to meet with Assad when he was supporting the killing of American servicemembers in Iraq, a major terror supporter, and a massive human rights abuser and declaring him part of the Path to Peace for no objective other than to protect him from Bush administration pressure and making the President look bad, that would be... . not disqualifying at all?




    Everyone needs to pull their skirts off their heads. The astonishment that opposition parties in congress oppose a President they disagree with is about on par with the periodic defenses and attacks on the filibuster by whomever is in the majority/minority - nakedly partisan in it's position, and nakedly hypocritical.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    To their credit (kind of) conservatives here know that congress screwed up big, which is why they're trying incessantly to deflect their action by saying, "But...Obama hasn't earned our trust!" as if that had any bearing on scuttling a crucial deal to prevent an unfriendly country from attaining the bomb and thus destabilizing the region even more. Rest assured, Iran will walk out of the negotiations now, they'll get the bomb, and Republicans will own it. The conservatives here know deep down that the Republicans ****ed up royally, and that this is something they never would have supported until Obama became their only reason for living and fighting.

    This has gone far beyond "derangement" and has now officially escalated to full blown sickness.
    It's not a matter of trust. Obama with his pen and his phone doesn't play well in a government where the branches are co equal. Obama has had his way with congress for six years and the country has suffered for it. Now that the congress is lost to him, he's got to deal with the reality that congress has powers and responsibilities that he has no authority to usurp, regardless of his pen and phone.
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    They don't have to conduct negotiations. Carrying out direct contact with a foreign government with intent to influence official negotiations violates the Logan act. The Logan act was passed in 1799 to prevent a similar occurrence where the opposition party attempted to influence negotiations with the French Government.
    And again, what in the letter is a violation of the language of the act you presented?

    And just for reference, what about Jimmy Carter's frequent visits to Palestine and contact with Palestinian leaders criticizing both Israel and the US relations and negotiations? What about Denis Rodman's visits to North Korea and contact with PRNK leadership?

    Those two examples would be far more representative of interference in US relations and negotiations with a foreign government. Perhaps the law you reference, while not relevant in this particular case, is no longer relevant in any case.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You reap what you sow.
    Indeed. No truer words spoken. Obama is reaping his just rewards at this point in his Presidency.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  7. #147
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What in the world makes you think this? Obama is trying to work out any deal with Iran in order to have something to wave in the air and declare Peace In Our Time with. Whether Iran get's the bomb or not is strictly secondary - the main provision of the agreement seems to be that Iran not build a bomb until Obama is no longer President and it isn't his problem, and in order to protect it from review, the Administration has simply declared that it will not take it to the Senate.



    Yeah. Republicans are the children because they aren't naïve enough to think that a nuclear Iran can be "managed" or is the "sensible" solution, and that makes them unfit to govern.

    But Democrat leadership traveling to meet with Assad when he was supporting the killing of American servicemembers in Iraq, a major terror supporter, and a massive human rights abuser and declaring him part of the Path to Peace for no objective other than to protect him from Bush administration pressure and making the President look bad, that would be... . not disqualifying at all?




    Everyone needs to pull their skirts off their heads. The astonishment that opposition parties in congress oppose a President they disagree with is about on par with the periodic defenses and attacks on the filibuster by whomever is in the majority/minority - nakedly partisan in it's position, and nakedly hypocritical.
    Their skepticism doesn't make them childish. Their relentless substance-free, base rousing theatrics do that.

    Principally, the Republicans have no business torpedoing this treaty because no great deeds are forthcoming on their part. They aren't willing to follow it up with an alternative other than more saber rattling. Rattling sabers didn't stop North Korea from getting the bomb, and Iran is much more capable. They'll succeed sooner or later if they want to. Beside that, Bush's interventionist foreign policies in the Middle East have almost uniformly failed, creating far more instability than democracy. Every U.S. boot in the Middle East lets ISIS recruit 20 more farmers from the field. Its a premature fulfillment of the Caliphate Osama bin Laden hoped to accomplish by baiting America into the Middle East.

    I'll also point all that the treaty loses us nothing. If the Iranians break it, we can pursue alternatives as planned. If they don't break it and we want to pursue those alternatives anyway, the State Department of the sitting president can simply declare that they broke it, the same thing Bush did to get into Iraq. Establishing diplomatic and economic relations with Iran at least boxes their government between a rock in a hard place between pursuing nuclear capability and bringing their people jobs and prosperity.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-10-15 at 09:13 PM.
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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Of course not. stop trying to paint those who don't approve of the current administration as kooks, it makes you look like an extremist.
    Oh please. "Obama is handing Iran nukes" isn't extremist?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Nobody in this thread has any idea what is in the agreement yet want to undermine and attack it because....well Obama.
    No agreement exists right now. The parties are still negotiating.

    Having said that, I believe the better course would have been the Senate's declaring its intent to take up any agreement for review rather than the clumsy approach that was pursued via the letter.

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    Re: Obama Blasts Republicans Over Letter to Iranian Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    No agreement exists right now. The parties are still negotiating.

    Having said that, I believe the better course would have been the Senate's declaring its intent to take up any agreement for review rather than the clumsy approach that was pursued via the letter.
    I agree... but there's one wrinkle.

    the Obama administration has already declared, before the election, he would be bypassing congress on not only the deal, but the sanctions as well.
    the Senate wants to play their part in this deal...they've simply been refused.

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