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Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

And their dates aren't strangers, which is what you claimed.

Strangers are people on a public bus. This wasn't a public bus.

So they were idiots and racists who sang this chant in front of their dates who were NOT total strangers. That's totally different, and I can see why you made a point of correcting me! You win the internets!
 
I wonder what the motivation was of the person who surreptitiously recorded this idiocy and made it public

Serving the greater public good I would guess. Hopefully they will be honored for their service.
 
So they were idiots and racists who sang this chant in front of their dates who were NOT total strangers. That's totally different, and I can see why you made a point of correcting me! You win the internets!

I make a point of correcting posts that are incorrect, as yours was.
 
You keep talking about returning to the University. Do you know they want to return? I don't. I'm a First Amendment fan, and okay, you don't see what I do. To you First Amendment violations don't seem to be a big deal. They are to me - from a non-political standpoint.
As I said a couple of pages back, I doubt they would want to return. I was only listing potential outcomes of a first amendment lawsuit. I don't understand why you think you're more of a first amendment fan.

The university can ban any Greek from its campus. And SAE didn't "basically disown" them, they removed their charter. National Greeks get charters removed. Universities order local chapters of Greeks off campus. This isn't an isolated instance. And if the school owned the house, the school can remove the fraternity from the house at any time.
Yeah, that's what I meant by "basically disowned" - but this is a clearer explanation. The student themselves haven't been "disowned" - it's the charter that is gone. The students have only been suspended (for now). But the main point stands.
 
I didn't ask you that question. I didn't post about that question. You said the other people on the bus were "(basically) strangers". They weren't. They were their dates. That's what I was posting about to you.

Maybe it would be clearer if you quoted the right post? Yeah, I think it would clear things up. Besides, I addressed your question anyway. I'll quote myself: "I also said the dates were "(basically) strangers." If you want to take issue with that, I'll amend it to say, "non-members of the fraternity."

The point being there were people on that bus who as non-members of the fraternity were, IMO, less likely than fellow fraternity members to get a chuckle out of a racist chant. If you think that's a false assumption, that's fine. I don't really care to debate that irrelevant point. Suffice it to say they were idiots and racists, which is a nice combination I think....
 
I like how conservatives always take a position that, if not tacitly supporting racists, certainly oppose any steps to criticize, denounce or punish racists.

And where in this thread is any conservative doing that? Or is that just your strawman effigy of conservatives you're referring to?
 
As I said a couple of pages back, I doubt they would want to return. I was only listing potential outcomes of a first amendment lawsuit. I don't understand why you think you're more of a first amendment fan.


Yeah, that's what I meant by "basically disowned" - but this is a clearer explanation. The student themselves haven't been "disowned" - it's the charter that is gone. The students have only been suspended (for now). But the main point stands.

Two of the students were expelled today.
 
Maybe it would be clearer if you quoted the right post? Yeah, I think it would clear things up. Besides, I addressed your question anyway. I'll quote myself: "I also said the dates were "(basically) strangers." If you want to take issue with that, I'll amend it to say, "non-members of the fraternity."

The point being there were people on that bus who as non-members of the fraternity were, IMO, less likely than fellow fraternity members to get a chuckle out of a racist chant. If you think that's a false assumption, that's fine. I don't really care to debate that irrelevant point. Suffice it to say they were idiots and racists, which is a nice combination I think....

So you agree that they weren't strangers. Thank you.

They're idiots. And racists. Who in this thread is saying something different?
 
Two of the students were expelled today.

And that was wrong. Even the nazi asshats have the right to sing their hate songs. This is a real and enumerated right. Now the fraternity, that's a different story. That should be disbanded, not by the national branch trying to divorce themselves from the stink, but by the university.
 
Such instances occur all over the country and by many different fraternities and sororities

14 examples of different fraternities and sororities doing the same thing. Not a consistent pattern throughout the years. :shrug:
 
And that was wrong. Even the nazi asshats have the right to sing their hate songs. This is a real and enumerated right. Now the fraternity, that's a different story. That should be disbanded, not by the national branch trying to divorce themselves from the stink, but by the university.

According to the law and the ACLU, free speech is protected on a pubic university, and especially when the speech occurs off campus, as this did. The expulsion of these 2 would appear to me to be wrong, but I'm not a Constitutional attorney. I just don't know why everyone is nonchalant about students getting expelled from public (think=government) universities because of something that they said.
 
No evidence. I'm disappointed. I thought you quoted me because you had something to share.

No, you're right. There is no other fraternal organization in the nation that has ever had an experience with racism on campuses - ever.

Creating strawman arguments doesn't suit you. Show us another organization with a similar pattern. I've shown that this pattern exists within this particular organization through the number of incidents in various chapters of the same group. Can you do that too? No? I wonder why.
 
Creating strawman arguments doesn't suit you. Show us another organization with a similar pattern. I've shown that this pattern exists within this particular organization through the number of incidents in various chapters of the same group. Can you do that too? No? I wonder why.

One more time, since you don't seem to understand. When you accuse a national organization of "promoting racism", you are expected to back it up. Now, when you have evidence that SAE as a national organization "promotes racism", as you claim they do, post it.
 
just saw the school expelled them.

This is a public funded school.

This is unconstitutional.

even racist dirtbags have rights.

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
 
One more time, since you don't seem to understand. When you accuse a national organization of "promoting racism", you are expected to back it up.

And I did, through the numerous examples of chapters of the same organization getting caught doing the same thing. You ignoring those instances because it doesn't fit your greek life memories doesn't change the obvious. :shrug:
 
What if the members of a non-white fraternity had thrown a party at which they played rap music containing obscene slurs against whites, along with the wholesome and delightful calls for killing police and raping women that are common in that music? Should the university discipline them too? I know how much soi-disant liberals detest the First Amendment, but some of us had imagined that people did not waive their freedom of speech by enrolling in a state university.

It's ironic what "liberal" has come to mean--nasty, intolerant, little prigs. Forty years ago, Jewish lawyers who were real liberals fought hard for the right of a bunch of Nazi goofballs to parade, in full regalia, through a town they picked exactly because many of its residents were Jewish survivors of Nazi concentration camps.
 
And I did, through the numerous examples of chapters of the same organization getting caught doing the same thing. You ignoring those instances because it doesn't fit your greek life memories doesn't change the obvious. :shrug:

No, Hatuey, you did not. Some yahoos being racist in their local chapter or even 5 or 10 or 27 other chapters is not evidence that SAE the national fraternity promotes racism. Please stop with the obtuse posts. You know exactly what I mean.

If I show you that 1000 Catholics cheated on their taxes, that does not equate to "The Catholic church promotes tax fraud". If I showed you that 20 NFL players were caught with prostitutes, that does not equate to "The NFL promotes illegal solicitation of prostitutes". If I show you that 157 students at the University of Illinois took speed to stay awake during their exam week, that does not equate to "The University of Illinois promotes the use of illegal drugs".
 
14 examples of different fraternities and sororities doing the same thing. Not a consistent pattern throughout the years. :shrug:

it's the largest frat out there... and it's been around since the 1800's... and you provided what.. 4 or 5 incidents?

the claim that the whole fraternity is racist is incredibly weak... the evidence just doesn't show it.
 
it's the largest frat out there... and it's been around since the 1800's... and you provided what.. 4 or 5 incidents?

The overwhelming majority of which have taken place in the last few years. Then again, let's be realistic, it's not as if such chants would have made front page news in any newspaper before the 1970s.
 
Why don't you act like a racist at work today and see how that goes. I am assuming there would be no punishment of any kind, right?

Since I work for myself...no. I don't 'act' like a racist ever.
 
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