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Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

When you find those missing cell phone videos of SAE members singing racist songs, post them. Along with your evidence of how the national SAE organization is promoting, and specifically how they're doing it.

So much deflection. Remember, there are now more instances of university students being racist with the ONLY thing in common being SAE. You can't wave that away and chuck it to some non-reason.
 
So much deflection. Remember, there are now more instances of university students being racist with the ONLY thing in common being SAE. You can't wave that away and chuck it to some non-reason.

So the only racism that the University of Oklahoma has ever seen is from SAE? That's quite a claim. Or are you saying that there is no racism anywhere on other campuses except when it's coming from an SAE chapter?

It also has nothing to do with SAE national promoting racism, as you claim they do. Where is your evidence of that? (hint - a few isolated instances isn't evidence of anything coming from a higher level - you're smart enough to know that).

By the way, while you're at it, post proof that SAE chapters at all of the different universities have a current culture of racism, and what SAE is doing to create that culture.
 
So the only racism that the University of Oklahoma has ever seen is from SAE?

Nope, this is why reading comprehension is important. What we've established that various chapters from the same organization engage in the same activities. That establishes a pattern within the organization whether you like it or not. The facts surrounding the chant provide more clues. Can you show a similar situation with a different fraternity? :shrug:
 
Nope, this is why reading comprehension is important. What we've established that various chapters from the same organization engage in the same activities. That establishes a pattern within the organization whether you like it or not. The facts surrounding the chant provide more clues. Can you show a similar situation with a different fraternity? :shrug:

No evidence. I'm disappointed. I thought you quoted me because you had something to share.

No, you're right. There is no other fraternal organization in the nation that has ever had an experience with racism on campuses - ever. And the only racism that exists at Oklahoma is in the SAE house. So do away with SAE, and there will be no more racism in this country on college campuses. I hope it works out for you!
 
Nope, this is why reading comprehension is important. What we've established that various chapters from the same organization engage in the same activities. That establishes a pattern within the organization whether you like it or not. The facts surrounding the chant provide more clues. Can you show a similar situation with a different fraternity? :shrug:

Wow..

More insulting posts instead of dialogue and debate...

what a shock
 
Well its official some were just expelled

2 University of Oklahoma students expelled over racist chant - CNN.com

Two University of Oklahoma students were expelled Tuesday for their alleged "leadership role" in a racist chant by Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity members, a decision that President David Boren says speaks to his school's "zero tolerance" policy for such "threatening racist behavior." The expulsions come days after the video surfaced and hours before the midnight Tuesday deadline that SAE members were given to pack their bags and get out of their house. It was only a nine-second clip, but the fallout has been disastrous. The national chapter of SAE shuttered the house at OU, and Boren said the university's affiliation with the fraternity is permanently done.

"I was not only shocked and disappointed but disgusted by the outright display of racism displayed in the video," said Brad Cohen, the fraternity's national president. "SAE is a diverse organization, and we have zero tolerance for racism or any bad behavior." Still, it could get worse. Oklahoma may not be the only source of embarrassment for the fraternity. "Several other incidents with chapters or members have been brought to the attention of the headquarters staff and leaders, and each of those instances will be investigated for further action," SAE said. The national chapter didn't provide details of the alleged incidents or where they are said to have taken place.
 

Interesting. I wonder if the students can bring the University to court now. I saw this earlier (it was linked from Wapo):

Public universities are bound by the First Amendment. Thus, both public university students and public university teachers are entitled to some protection from discipline, firing, and other retaliation for their speech. In some areas, this protection is pretty clear and pretty broad. In others, it's relatively vague. Student speech outside the classroom and outside academic assignments. Most clearly, students generally may not be expelled, suspended, or otherwise disciplined for what they say in student newspapers, at demonstrations, in out-of-class conversations, and the like. The Supreme Court made this clear in Papish v. Board of Curators, 410 U.S. 667 (1973), and Healy v. James, 408 U.S. 169 (1972). Lower courts have followed suit, especially in the late 1980s and 1990s cases that have struck down student speech codes. See, e.g., Dambrot v. Central Michigan Univ., 55 F.3d 1177 (6th Cir. 1995); Iota Xi v. George Mason Univ., 993 F.2d 386 (4th Cir. 1993); UWM Post v. Univ. of Wisc., 74 F. Supp. 1163 (E.D. Wis. 1991); Doe v. Univ. of Mich., 721 F. Supp. 852 (E.D. Mich. 1989).

The Volokh Conspiracy - A Very Sketchy Guide to the First Amendment Law of Academic Freedom:
 
I wonder if this means that public universities can expel any student who says something offensive now.
 
Well, the ACLU disagrees with the decision to expel the students, according to their official position on hate speech on campuses:

Many universities, under pressure to respond to the concerns of those who are the objects of hate, have adopted codes or policies prohibiting speech that offends any group based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

That's the wrong response, well-meaning or not. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of education in a free society.


https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus

I wonder if they are going to take up the cause for these 2 guys.
 
I thought they always could...

Apparently they couldn't, according to everything I read. Interesting that the university did it anyway. SCOTUS has heard such cases and always ruled against the school. Hell, even the ACLU is against it.
 
Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant



Sigma Alpha Epsilon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



They're trying to fool people into believing that racism isn't part of this fraternity. It most certainly looks like it. It just took unquestionable video evidence and the school's money makers (athletes) leaving for them to take notice.

well, it's good to boot these dudes down the road for their racist bull****.... but to extent this racism charge to the entire fraternity is a big ass stretch, even if there are a few incidents here and there.
 
The fraternity has a history and should lose it charter altogether. The university should not be allowed to expel the students, they have a right to hold whatever racist opinions they wish, to speak them.
 
I wonder what the motivation was of the person who surreptitiously recorded this idiocy and made it public
 
Interesting. I wonder if the students can bring the University to court now. I saw this earlier (it was linked from Wapo):
No doubt they can sue the University, but I don't see why they would want to subject themselves to more media attention, or why they would want to return to the U. Time to crawl into a little hole and hide for a couple of years.
 
I like how conservatives always take a position that, if not tacitly supporting racists, certainly oppose any steps to criticize, denounce or punish racists.
 
No doubt they can sue the University, but I don't see why they would want to subject themselves to more media attention, or why they would want to return to the U. Time to crawl into a little hole and hide for a couple of years.

I don't know that anyone said they would want to return to the University. The Duke Lacrosse players sued Duke, and it wasn't because they wanted to return there.
 
Not condoning for one minute what has been portrayed in the media regarding this frat. However, I can't help being reminded of:

Je Suis Charlie

I suppose ridicule and prejudice against an identifiable group is okay sometimes, but terrible at other times.
 
I like how conservatives always take a position that, if not tacitly supporting racists, certainly oppose any steps to criticize, denounce or punish racists.
You like how some people support racism? To each his own, I suppose.
 
I wonder how people feel about the idea of colleges looking through students' Twitter feeds, Facebook pages, Instagram accounts, message board posts, and so on, looking for offensive content so they can expel them.
 
No doubt they can sue the University, but I don't see why they would want to subject themselves to more media attention, or why they would want to return to the U. Time to crawl into a little hole and hide for a couple of years.

Exactly - I suspect if Boren asked legal counsel he was told the University couldn't expel them, but he probably figured there's no downside for OU or him by doing so anyway. He's taken a very public stand against racism, satisfied donors and current students and alumni/ae and basically said to the expelled kids - "If you don't like it, sue me!" In a week or two or whatever, he can always back down if it looks like he'll have a legal problem.
 
I don't know that anyone said they would want to return to the University. The Duke Lacrosse players sued Duke, and it wasn't because they wanted to return there.
I don't know what they'd sue for, if not to be allowed to return to the U.
 
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