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Thread: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

  1. #381
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Great, and I want evidence that there is racism being promoted out of the national chapter. Show some emails, letters, speeches, notes, books, anything.

    Here's your evidence that he was discussing the national organization. You don't have to wait.



    Read it. If you had any clue about the subject matter you're discussing, you'd be able to comprehend the posts you are responding to. Unbelievable.
    He's trolling. I just now realized that.

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you said that people should "own their words" and remain anonymous, then you're contradicting yourself. How can they "own their words" if no one knows who they are? You're just asserting they have the right to free speech and also should, if their speech offends, to be able to avoid public accountability for their words. I disagree with that 100%.

    And the court of public opinion 'trying them' is one way we are, in the real world, held accountable for what we say and write. Whether you subscribe to that or not is irrelevant - it's what happens.



    I guess more than anything I think they should be banned forever, and the mods do a pretty good job of keeping that stuff off the board.

    I'd never out anyone, but if someone comes here and does spew hatred, or death threats, etc. their expectation of privacy should be zero, and if someone does that and later runs for office (as an example) and is outed for that speech, I will shed no tears. I'm pretty cognizant of the fact that what I write here is just someone caring enough for all of it to be publicly available. And if I run for office and my posts are made public, that's my bed that I made.

    In the meantime, this thin skin of anonymity we enjoy here fosters open debate which is a good thing. But I am glad that we are moderated and the haters are booted.
    I own my words on here, but I'm anonymous, am I not?

    I own my words every day. We all should own our words. That doesn't mean we should be threatened over our words, does it? So besides the death threats, what exactly came out of their names being public?

    Do you believe that they should be afraid? Ostracized forever? Put in jail?

    That's why I said to Zinthaniel that you are better off not saying what may hurt others. Keep your mouth shut. If you don't, you may suffer. You may get fired. You may lose your girlfriend. You may get kicked off the Little League team. But I don't believe that death threats are a good thing, and it was pretty obvious that they were going to be threatened. Were you surprised that they were? I wasn't.

    But back to the anonymity, I also think people should be able to say what they want in privacy. I said that about that basketball team owner who made those stupid comments to his gold digging girlfriend. I don't believe it's right to punish people for what is said in a private setting. Which is why the lesson to be learned is not only watch what you say - watch who you say it around.

    I 1000% agree by the way about the moderation on here. I also love to see the haters booted. But only when they become a menace to the board. I don't want to see people booted because they say something that I don't like.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  3. #383
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    What is Oklahoma's eavesdropping laws? The phone owner who recorded this -- if applicable -- should be charged.

    Is this not a private organization? Are they not allowed the freedom of expression and don't its members (of a fraternal organization known for its secrecy) have a certain expectation to privacy?

    Or have people lost their marbles again and decided to sacrifice rights and laws on the alter of political correctness?
    I am sure this guy will be charged right next to the bartender that recorded Romney's 47% comment.

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I own my words on here, but I'm anonymous, am I not?
    No, you really don't 'own your words' in a meaningful sense because you're anonymous. How are you being personally held accountable by what you write here? If you go off on a string of racist rants, or whatever, so long as you remain anonymous, there is NO consequence to you. You are "tres borrachos" and can say what you want with impunity so long as your anonymity is guaranteed. Your family won't know, your employer, future voters if you run for office, etc. You can out yourself or be outed, but it won't be until your real name is associated with your posts that you face ANY actual consequences for your words.

    I'm OK with that, actually, because this is or should be a fun diversion, but I am not claiming that my anonymous self is being held somehow accountable for what I write.

    I own my words every day. We all should own our words. That doesn't mean we should be threatened over our words, does it? So besides the death threats, what exactly came out of their names being public?
    Asked and answered - they're being held publicly accountable. Pretty simple concept, personal responsibility, all that. And I've condemned the death threats. If avoiding death threats is priority #1, then it's fine to argue that people should be able to hide behind anonymity and avoid being held publicly accountable for their words. But you're making a different argument. You can't have both - accountability and no death threats or other unfair or unduly harsh conequences. Pick one.

    Do you believe that they should be afraid? Ostracized forever? Put in jail?
    You're making up stuff, but the answer is no.

    That's why I said to Zinthaniel that you are better off not saying what may hurt others. Keep your mouth shut. If you don't, you may suffer. You may get fired. You may lose your girlfriend. You may get kicked off the Little League team. But I don't believe that death threats are a good thing, and it was pretty obvious that they were going to be threatened. Were you surprised that they were? I wasn't.
    If you're anonymous, nothing like that will happen because you're anonymous. You're making arguments that are contradictory on their face. If you want accountability, you can't be anonymous. If you're publicly outed, you will be held accountable and some of those ways you're held accountable may be harsh, unfair, disproportionate, etc. It's a risk we all take by speaking and taking controversial positions. If you aren't willing to accept that risk, keep your mouth shut, stay off line.

    But back to the anonymity, I also think people should be able to say what they want in privacy. I said that about that basketball team owner who made those stupid comments to his gold digging girlfriend. I don't believe it's right to punish people for what is said in a private setting. Which is why the lesson to be learned is not only watch what you say - watch who you say it around.
    It's a balancing act, IMO, with no easy answer as to when and where our words are private versus public. We're debating on a public forum that the entire world can view. My EXPECTATION of privacy is actually zero, although I don't use my real name or hand out my address. If I'm talking to my wife or a friend and say something offensive, I'm not sure I have a 'right' (legal or ethical) to prevent them from repeating it. It's a tough issue, with no good answer for every situation....

    I 1000% agree by the way about the moderation on here. I also love to see the haters booted. But only when they become a menace to the board. I don't want to see people booted because they say something that I don't like.
    Nor do I because it would be awfully boring if we all agreed.

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    SAE was founded at the University of Alabama before the Civil War. Think about that a little bit.
    Yes. I've thought about it. So what? What if every last damned member of it hated blacks with a passion? What would that have to do with their freedom of speech?

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, you really don't 'own your words' in a meaningful sense because you're anonymous.<snip>.
    Forgive me for snipping your post, but I was just thinking about something while I was on a conference call (I didn't need to be on there as it turned out so I had time to tune out).

    Why does the public need to know their identities? For what reason?
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I own my words on here, but I'm anonymous, am I not?

    I own my words every day. We all should own our words. That doesn't mean we should be threatened over our words, does it? So besides the death .
    Then own up and admit that you mischaracterized the people in your school who did not pledge as odd or nerdy here:

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Animal House came out in 1978, two years before I entered college. I have to admit, when I saw it I was like WTF, is all of that true? It was, in a lot of ways. I was in the Greek system at my college - Greeks were huge. The only people who didn't pledge were either nerdy, odd, or hockey players (they weren't allowed to). I went to a private university.

    Own it. Don't need to defend yourself or get all dramatic, just own it and admit that is what you think about the people who didn't pledge at your school and that is not a truthful description of people who didn't pledge at your school.
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
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  8. #388
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Yes. I've thought about it. So what? What if every last damned member of it hated blacks with a passion? What would that have to do with their freedom of speech?
    Well, they're 'free' to be racists, but society is also free to out them all as racists, and they'd have to deal with the consequences of that. I don't think OU should expel them over their racist views, but school might not be fun for them as known and proud racists. Employers might be hesitant to hire them. Too bad....

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Then own up and admit that you mischaracterized the people in your school who did not pledge as odd or nerdy here:




    Own it. Don't need to defend yourself or get all dramatic, just own it and admit that is what you think about the people who didn't pledge at your school and that is not a truthful description of people who didn't pledge at your school.
    Stop quoting me if you want to go off topic. The Greek system at my college isn't the topic. I have no interest in discussing the Greek system at my college with you. It's none of your business. You and Hatuey can spend hours speculating about the Greek system at my college if it makes your day.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  10. #390
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I am not disagreeing with what the university did. They have a right to not want that kind of thing at their university.

    My only point is that people and America as a whole need to remember sometimes that free speech and freedom of expression are rights and should never be trampled on.

    Besides, I would far rather these dicks expose themselves for the racist pigs they are - so they are out in the open - rather then talk in whispers and remain anonymous.
    Muzzling racists just forces them into the shadows...I would rather they were out in the open.
    Good points- I agree with you on that. I have no problem with people exercising their rights to free speech, as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of those actions.

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