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Thread: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I can't watch videos on this computer. What in the video shows that the SAE national organization promotes racism?
    Several chapters around the country have been charged with racism and racist whatever over the years. This song, at least it's content, isn't unique to this chapter alone.

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Several chapters around the country have been charged with racism and racist whatever over the years. This song, at least it's content, isn't unique to this chapter alone.
    That isn't what I asked. I asked what evidence there is that the national organization "promotes racism".
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That isn't what I asked. I asked what evidence there is that the national organization "promotes racism".
    That's always going to be circumstantial. But here we have a pattern with this one fraternity that transcends individual chapters.

    Here's some we're heard about:

    Discriminatory incidents[edit]

    In 1982 SAE members at the University of Cincinnati were suspended for a racially demeaning party corresponding with Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday.[21] In 2013 SAE members at Washington University in St. Louis were suspended for singing racial slurs to African American Students.[22] In 2014, SAE members at Clemson University were suspended for throwing a racially charged, "Cripmas" party.[23] In 2014, SAE members at the University of Arizona were suspended for attacking Jewish students.[24]

    The national organization of Sigma Alpha Epsilon closed the University of Oklahoma chapter in March, 2015 after a video surfaced showing members chanting a song which featured the racial slur, "nigger," and made reference to lynching. The chant, set to the popular children's song, "If You're Happy and You Know It", declares, "There will never be a nigger in SAE. You can hang him from a tree, but he can never sign with me."[25] Sigma Alpha Epsilon suspended the charter of the involved chapter and suspended its members on March 8, 2015. The University of Oklahoma president, David Boren, closed the fraternity chapter,[26] giving members two days to vacate the fraternity's campus dwellings.[27] On March 10, two students identified in the video were expelled from the university.[28]

    In 2014, the chapter at Clemson University hosted a "Cripmas" party in reference to Southern California based African-American crips gang. The chapter "suspended all activity indefinately" according to the SAE national office.[29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_A...tory_incidents

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    None, but we can make one up if you really need there to be. I figure even the blind squirrel gets some of the nuts.
    It's ****ing patently obvious. They're singing a ****ing song as if they've known it all their damn lives. Then you have similar racist events where chapters in entirely different states promote the same views. Then you have members of the same organization attacking and terrorizing other students; once again across various states and in different schools.

    A rational person has two options when all of this information is given: They either question the organization itself or they can question the region these people live in.

    I honestly don't want to get into whether this is a case of race in the South because it also involves Midwestern universities where race dynamics aren't always so clear. That leaves a single option, the fact that these events are tied by well, SAE members acting within a group dynamic. So just what views is SAE promoting that not one but various chapters in various states, across various decades end up conducting the same activities?

    I think what's been most laughable about this entire discussion is that people are asking for a detailed history of SAE's racist history. As if racist chanting at a university would have made the news 50 years ago. What we have is SAE's recent history and that is one that shows a clear pattern of racism within the organization. As I said, the relationship between recording technology and these incidents is linear. The more technology available to record it, the more incidents we see.
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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's always going to be circumstantial. But here we have a pattern with this one fraternity that transcends individual chapters.
    That isn't evidence that the national fraternity promotes racism.

    pro·mote


    /prəˈmōt/


    verb

    verb: promote; 3rd person present: promotes; past tense: promoted; past participle: promoted; gerund or present participle: promoting



    1. further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    I support the right of any American to hate the living guts of any other person, because of his race, his religion, the way he walks, the music he likes, or any other damned reason imaginable, and to stand on the street corner and proclaim his hatred to the world.

    And I am always glad to see self-styled "liberals" betray just how intolerant and undemocratic they really are by applauding the suppression of speech in the name of political correctness. It is not the least surprising that doctrine was originally cooked up by communists for the express purpose of silencing people whose views they disliked.

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    For those that say you can't expel a student due to freedom of speech, maybe you can read the OU code of conduct, which does not allow unwelcome conduct (chanting could be said as conduct) that is threatening and humiliating, which I personally would find a group of people chanting what these kids did as both of those things.



    http://www.ou.edu/content/dam/studen...tudentCode.pdf

    III. Student Rights
    Students of the University of Oklahoma are guaranteed certain rights by the Constitutions of the United
    States and the State of Oklahoma and the University of Oklahoma Student Association. Those
    documents are controlling and any questions of student rights must be decided on the language
    contained in those documents. Among other rights, the following apply:
    1. The student has the right to form, join and participate in any student organization or group without
    regard to race, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, genetic information, age (40 or older),
    religion, disability, political beliefs or status as a veteran. Institutional Equity Office and
    Sexual Misconduct
    2. The student has the right to pursue his/her education as long as he/she meets the University’s
    applicable
    academic standards and observes applicable laws and policies.


    VI. Student Responsibilities

    These definitions include, but are not limited to, the following:
    1. Abusive conduct: Unwelcome conduct that is sufficiently severe and pervasive that it alters the
    conditions of education or employment and creates an environment that a reasonable person would
    find intimidating, harassing or humiliating
    . These circumstances could include the frequency of the
    conduct, its severity, and whether it is threatening or humiliating. This includes physically abusing
    a person or holding a person against his or her will. Simple teasing, offhanded comments and
    isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not amount to abusive conduct.


    I hardly find chanting about hanging a group of people to be offhanded or simple teasing myself.



    Also if anyone is interested I found this on their non discrimination policy:
    http://www.ou.edu/content/eoo/polici...2012-21-12.pdf
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
    _____________________________________________

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That isn't evidence that the national fraternity promotes racism.

    pro·mote


    /prəˈmōt/


    verb

    verb: promote; 3rd person present: promotes; past tense: promoted; past participle: promoted; gerund or present participle: promoting



    1. further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
    Except you're never going to find promotion in the limited way you are asking. People hide things that will get them in trouble. Organizations are generally very effective at it. That's why the pattern of actual behavior is significant/telling.


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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's ****ing patently obvious. They're singing a ****ing song as if they've known it all their damn lives. Then you have similar racist events where chapters in entirely different states promote the same views. Then you have members of the same organization attacking and terrorizing other students; once again across various states and in different schools.

    A rational person has two options when all of this information is given: They either question the organization itself or they can question the region these people live in.

    I honestly don't want to get into whether this is a case of race in the South because it also involves Midwestern universities where race dynamics aren't always so clear. That leaves a single option, the fact that these events are tied by well, SAE members acting within a group dynamic. So just what views is SAE promoting that not one but various chapters in various states, across various decades end up conducting the same activities?

    I think what's been most laughable about this entire discussion is that people are asking for a detailed history of SAE's racist history. As if racist chanting at a university would have made the news 50 years ago. What we have is SAE's recent history and that is one that shows a clear pattern of racism within the organization. As I said, the relationship between recording technology and these incidents is linear. The more technology available to record it, the more incidents we see.
    I sang songs while I was a Greek. One of them talked about getting drunk and ****ing the boyfriend of a Kappa Kappa Gamma, who was our "enemy sorority". It wasn't in our national songbook. It was written by a sister in my chapter and passed down through the years. My national couldn't take the heat for that.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    For those that say you can't expel a student due to freedom of speech, maybe you can read the OU code of conduct, which does not allow unwelcome conduct (chanting could be said as conduct) that is threatening and humiliating, which I personally would find a group of people chanting what these kids did as both of those things.
    Private venue lacking anyone to harass, threaten or humiliate. Fully protected by the 1st which trumps any policy set by the public university.

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