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Thread: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last[W:159]

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian View Post
    You do understand the senate has the authority on foreign policy matters.....or do you think that role should be left to your king?
    you seem to misunderstand the concept of "advise and consent"
    the senate's advice and consent is to be shared with our nation's president - NOT the other side
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you seem to misunderstand the concept of "advise and consent"
    the senate's advice and consent is to be shared with our nation's president - NOT the other side
    Can you cite where that distinction is made in the Constitution?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you seem to misunderstand the concept of "advise and consent"
    the senate's advice and consent is to be shared with our nation's president - NOT the other side
    I see....so you don't understand the role of senate.

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Despite your deep knowledge of recent political history in Canada and the US, you apparently missed a little bit of history

    Iran's "first problems with the US" did not take place in 1979 but in 1953 -- In declassified document, CIA acknowledges role in '53 Iran coup.

    The Shah was a 'great friend of the US' who had just a bit of a problem with acknowledging human rights in his own country.
    And Mossadeq who dissolved parliament through an illegal and fraudulent referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote was no better, it wasn't a coup it was a counter-coup. Furthermore; the Mullahs now controlling Iran supported the Shah over Mossadeq and only went against the Shah when he implemented liberal reforms under the white revolution which would have taken away the power of the theocrats so don't pretend like the 1979 revolution was pro-human rights when in actuality it was the exact antithesis.

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarian View Post
    You do understand the senate has the authority on foreign policy matters.....or do you think that role should be left to your king?
    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you seem to misunderstand the concept of "advise and consent"
    the senate's advice and consent is to be shared with our nation's president - NOT the other side
    The Senate's "authority on foreign policy" does not extend to direct interaction with foreign governments in contradiction to the actions of the Executive branch of government. Their authority lies in the "advise and consent" during a process, acceptance or rejection of executive actions and most importantly perhaps, control of the funding for executive actions as they relate to foreign governments.

    More info here
    Conclusion

    The practices illustrated in this report show that making U.S. foreign policy is a complex process. Both the legislative and executive branches play important roles; the roles are different, although frequently overlapping. Both branches have continuing opportunities to initiate and change foreign Policy, and the interaction between them continues indefinitely throughout the life of a policy.


    The President as the chief spokesman of the Nation, directs Government officials and machinery in the daily conduct of diplomacy, and has the principal responsibility for taking action to advance U.S. foreign policy interests. Congress in its oversight responsibility can affect the course of policy through enactment of legislation governing foreign relations and through the appropriation or denial of funds. Experience has shown that cooperation between the two branches is necessary for a strong and effective U.S. foreign policy.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Yeah man, any day now the Muslims are going to defeat the United States military and overpower the most armed civilian population on Earth.
    Ya because it requires a huge military to smuggle a nuclear weapon into a port.

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The Senate's "authority on foreign policy" does not extend to direct interaction with foreign governments in contradiction to the actions of the Executive branch of government. Their authority lies in the "advise and consent"
    That's the whole point, advise was not sought, consent was not given, and the treaty was not put before the Senate for a 2/3's ratification, the Imperial President has bi-passed the Senate entirely on one of the most important issues of this millennium, now do you understand?

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    And Mossadeq who dissolved parliament through an illegal and fraudulent referendum in which he garnered a 99.9% yes vote was no better, it wasn't a coup it was a counter-coup. Furthermore; the Mullahs now controlling Iran supported the Shah over Mossadeq and only went against the Shah when he implemented liberal reforms under the white revolution which would have taken away the power of the theocrats so don't pretend like the 1979 revolution was pro-human rights when in actuality it was the exact antithesis.
    "pro-human rights"? Revolting against a dictator does not always mean the resulting government is much better.

    The Shah appointed Mossadeq as Prime Minister in 1951. He was thrown out by the MI-6/CIA instigated coup because he had nationalised the oil industry, seizing the assets of foreign oil companies.

    The White Revolution didn't take away power from the theocrats but it did bring in some reforms that the most conservative objected to on religious grounds. Primary among those being improved rights for women. The Ayatollah Khomeini was expelled from Iran in 1964 after leading street riots which were bloodily suppressed by the Shah's forces. As oil revenues increased, social inequality increased and tensions developed. Being a typical dictator, the Shah put his secret police out on the streets and those who spoke out began to disappear. The end came as the Shah's health deteriorated and the support of the military waned.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    That's the whole point, advise was not sought, consent was not given, and the treaty was not put before the Senate for a 2/3's ratification, the Imperial President has bi-passed the Senate entirely on one of the most important issues of this millennium, now do you understand?
    It looks like you don't understand - there is no treaty YET, negotiations are still ongoing. Then there is the ever so small matter that the diplomacy is not controlled by the US, it is a mutual admiration society of six nations.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The Senate's "authority on foreign policy" does not extend to direct interaction with foreign governments in contradiction to the actions of the Executive branch of government. Their authority lies in the "advise and consent" during a process, acceptance or rejection of executive actions and most importantly perhaps, control of the funding for executive actions as they relate to foreign governments.

    More info here
    Yeah so....the senate isn't negotiating anything......it's reminding everyone that it has say in the matters.

    But if you really think they broken Logan Laws then I strongly suggest you get this administration, justice department and congress/senate to act and end this treason.
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

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