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Thread: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’ [W:170]

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    I still don't see any significance to these statements of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... Iran thinks that their path to recapturing the glory of Ancient Persia depends more on access to the global economy than on nuclear weapons that will sit in their silos because nobody wants to risk using them. Its not in the interest of the United States to disabuse them of that notion. Aren't we supposed to be equal opportunity capitalists?
    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Due to the fact of the Iarq war for one.
    next would be US invasions.

    Next, read the link.
    A coda to the Cotton letter - The Washington Post
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    [QUOTE=Mycroft;1064406838]


    REMAINDER OF COMMENT REPRINTED BELOW

    ____________


    Your method of posting and the fact that you screwed up your quote of my post makes it hard for me to address your post, so I'll try to respond without showing your actual words...you can refer back to your own post if you get confused.
    _____________
    A. How did I “screw up your post......” by documenting the fact that that your belief that Ahmadinejad threatened to “wipe Israel from the face of the earth” is based on a deliberate mistranslation intended to deceive Western readers (with obvious success) by a bias Western Major Media?

    What he said was “Zionism will eventually disappear with the sands of time.....” That is the accurate translation from Farsi.

    Have you forgotten similar lies by perpetrated by the same War Mongering, Right Wing Israeli/Zionist Lobbies & Neo-Cons to dupe Americans into supporting the Iraq War?

    “Quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq was one of AIPAC’s successes over the past year”
    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun; Jan. ’03

    _________
    1. Do you deny that the Iranian government wishes to destroy Israel?

    A. Overall, Yes & certainly no more than the Israeli Government wants to (and can) destroy Iran. It is primarily Israel’s Expansionist, Right Wing Zionists (not all Israelis) who wants Iran out of the way because Iran acts as a Check to to their Oded Yinon Plan(“Greater Israel”: From the Litani, to the Nile R. to the Tigris R.)
    Read J.I.N.S.A.’s: “A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm”, P.N.A.C.; “Project for a New American Century”

    For Example:

    Iran’s support of Hezbollah (a Defensive, Resistance, Political, Humanitarian) has driven out Israeli Invasions of Lebanon in an old agenda to grab the Litani River & generally expand influence:

    For Example:


    “RE: I.C.E. CASE #14”
    ICE Cases: Litani River Dispute
    EXCERPT “The entire basin of the Litani River is located within the borders of Lebanon.
    Israel seemingly is tempted to reach beyond its border to get access to the needed water. "Almost half of the water currently used in Israel is captured, diverted or preempted from its neighbors."(10)
    “CONTINUED
    _____________
    I’m skipping 2, 3, 4, for now due to time & space constraints & relevancy but can refute them later if you like



    3. I won't get into a pissing contest on which country is a bigger victim of terrorists. Do you deny that the Iranian government supports terrorists throughout the Middle East?

    A. No more than Israel & the US when it suits their purposes

    4. Alliances shift with world events, just as those in control of countries shift. But to say that the US supports Al Qaeda is ridiculous.

    A. a.Q. is composed of countless, smaller “Terrorist” groups that have been aided by the U.S./ the West & Israel in Syrian Regime Change & Sunni vs Shia conflicts.


    “The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda”
    The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda | Foreign Policy Journal

    --------------------

    5. You still don't understand...or you refuse to understand...I don't hate Iran or its people, so don't apply characteristics to me that I have not expressed. I will express that I do not like the Iranian government, their objective to obtain nuclear weapons or their actions in supporting terrorists throughout the Middle East.

    A. I wouldn’t want to live under the Iranian form of government but think that everything about Iran has been grossly distorted by Western Major Media to a grossly misinformed/uninformed US public. 60% of Americans still can’t find Iraq on a map.

    My first loyalty is to the US, its best interests, its people, military & fellow Vets. Our current relationship with Iran is driven by Foreign lobbies, enormously wasteful, and contrary to what’s best for the US & those to whom I am loyal. Iran has repeatedly offered aid & reached out for improved relations only to be rebuffed.

    I am not anti Israel and feel the unconditional US government support for any and all Israeli crimes & atrocities enable suicidal misadventures & are counter-productive to both peoples. Record numbers of IDF are committing suicide simply from witnessing/committing Government ordered atrocities in Gaza. Only 26 Israelis have died from all Hamas "Raining Rockets" total

    S. Korea is the only country that is faced by a nuclear threat but remains unmentioned in the Ziono-Con contrived anti-Iran hysteria which most Americans don't buy.


    Again, thanks for your time

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    Again, thanks for your time
    You did it again. Look, I don't know why you can't manage to quote my posts properly...it's really not hard to do.

    Anyway, you didn't screw up my post, you screwed up your quoting of my post. That makes it very difficult for me to properly quote you in my response. As a result, I decline to respond to your posts...I just don't see any benefit from spending the time to decipher and separate your comments from mine.

    Perhaps you can ask for assistance from one of the Mods to correct your inability to effectively use this forums quote capabilities.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    A. How did I “screw up your post......” by documenting the fact that that your belief that Ahmadinejad threatened to “wipe Israel from the face of the earth” is based on a deliberate mistranslation intended to deceive Western readers (with obvious success) by a bias Western Major Media?
    No that's the damn lie propagated by the Mullah apologist and propagandist Juan Cole whom Christopher Hitchens proved as the damned liar that he is:

    There are two separate but related matters here. For a start, let us look at the now-famous speech that Ahmadinejad actually gave at the Interior Ministry on Oct. 26, 2005. (I am using the translation made by Nazila Fathi of the New York Times Tehran bureau, whose Persian is probably the equal of Professor Cole's.) The relevant portions read:

    Our dear Imam [Khomeini] said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. … Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. … For over fifty years the world oppressor tried to give legitimacy to the occupying regime, and it has taken measures in this direction to stabilize it.

    Ahmadinejad then denounced the recent Israeli-Palestinian negotiations over Gaza as a sellout and added, "If we get through this brief period successfully, the path of eliminating the occupying regime will be easy and down-hill."

    Not even Professor Cole will dispute that, in the above passages, the term "occupying regime" means Israel and the term "world oppressor" stands for the United States. (The title of the conference, incidentally, was The World Without Zionism.) In fact, Khomeini's injunctions are referred to twice. Quite possibly, "wiped off the map" is slightly too free a translation of what he originally said, and what it is mandatory for his followers to repeat. So, I give it below, in Persian and in English, and let you be the judge:

    Esrail ghiyam-e mossalahaane bar zed-e mamaalek-e eslami nemoodeh ast va bar doval va mamaalek-eeslami ghal-o-gham aan lazem ast.


    My source here is none other than a volume published by the Institute for Imam Khomeini. Here is the translation:

    Israel has declared armed struggle against Islamic countries and its destruction is a must for all governments and nations of Islam.

    This is especially important, and is also the reason for the wide currency given to the statement: It is making something into a matter of religious duty. The term "ghal-o-gham" is an extremely strong and unambivalent one, of which a close equivalent rendering would be "annihilate."

    Professor Cole has completely missed or omitted the first reference in last October's speech, skipped to the second one, and flatly misunderstood the third. (The fourth one, about "eliminating the occupying regime," I would say speaks for itself.) He evidently thinks that by "occupation," Khomeini and Ahmadinejad were referring to the Israeli seizure of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. But if this were true, it would not have been going on for "more than fifty years" now, would it? The 50th anniversary of 1967 falls in 2017, which is a while off. What could be clearer than that "occupation regime" is a direct reference to Israel itself?

    One might have thought that, if the map-wiping charge were to have been inaccurate or unfair, Ahmadinejad would have denied it. But he presumably knew what he had said and had meant to say. In any case, he has an apologist to do what he does not choose to do for himself. But this apologist, who affects such expertise in Persian, cannot decipher the plain meaning of a celebrated statement and is, furthermore, in need of a remedial course in English.


    What Iran's leaders are really saying about Israel.

    What he said was “Zionism will eventually disappear with the sands of time.....” That is the accurate translation from Farsi.

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    Iran’s support of Hezbollah (a Defensive, Resistance, Political, Humanitarian) has driven out Israeli Invasions of Lebanon in an old agenda to grab the Litani River & generally expand influence:
    Hezbollah is an internationally recognized terrorist organization which is in overt violation of the UNSC Resolution 1559 demanding that all paramilitary organizations disarm following the withdrawal of Israel from Lebanon which was certified as complete by the UNSC in 2000, there is nothing defensive about Hezbollah it is an expansionist terror organization sworn to destroy Israel and establish a theocratic Islamic regime in its place:




    The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

    We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

    Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

    We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

    Hizbollah's Political Manifesto 2009

    An Open Letter: The Hizballah Program - Council on Foreign Relations

    We categorically reject any compromise with Israel or recognizing its legitimacy This position is definitive, even if everyone recognizes "Israel".

    Our stance on the negotiations and compromises made by the Madrid Conference,the "Araba Valley retrospect" the "Oslo Accords", the "Camp David Accord" is a totalrefusal to any kind of compromise with the Zionist entity, which is based onadmitting its legitimate presence, and giving in what it occupied from the Palestinian Arab and Islamic land. This stance is predetermined and permanent and isn't set for any compromise, even if the whole world admits to "Israel".


    Hizbollah's Political Manifesto 2009

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You did it again. Look, I don't know why you can't manage to quote my posts properly...it's really not hard to do.

    Anyway, you didn't screw up my post, you screwed up your quoting of my post. That makes it very difficult for me to properly quote you in my response. As a result, I decline to respond to your posts...I just don't see any benefit from spending the time to decipher and separate your comments from mine.

    Perhaps you can ask for assistance from one of the Mods to correct your inability to effectively use this forums quote capabilities.
    ________________

    I didn't "screw up" the quoting of your Post. I simply copied your questions/points exactly as you wrote them using your same numbers.

    My Answers are clearly listed below them with "A." for "Answer"

    All you had to "decipher" were obvious abbreviations or abbreviations I spelled out for you like: "a.Q." = al Quaeda

    You flatly denied any US connection to working with/helping al Quaeda so I cited a widely accepted & simple source listing examples to the contrary:

    For Example:

    "The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda"
    The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda | Foreign Policy Journal
    EXCERPT "And let me tell you about American leaders. .......They have supported “awful jihadists” and their moral equivalents for decades. Let’s begin in 1979 in Afghanistan, where the Moujahedeen (“holy warriors”) were in battle against a secular, progressive government supported by the Soviet Union;"CONTINUED


    I even explained that al-Qaeda is composed of many smaller "Terrorist" groups etc, etc




    My 14 year old niece was able to understand/"decipher" how I responded to your numbered questions so I doubt that I'll need to bother the "Mods"

  7. #67
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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    ________________

    I didn't "screw up" the quoting of your Post. I simply copied your questions/points exactly as you wrote them using your same numbers.

    My Answers are clearly listed below them with "A." for "Answer"

    All you had to "decipher" were obvious abbreviations or abbreviations I spelled out for you like: "a.Q." = al Quaeda

    You flatly denied any US connection to working with/helping al Quaeda so I cited a widely accepted & simple source listing examples to the contrary:

    For Example:

    "The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda"
    The Historical US Support for al-Qaeda | Foreign Policy Journal
    EXCERPT "And let me tell you about American leaders. .......They have supported “awful jihadists” and their moral equivalents for decades. Let’s begin in 1979 in Afghanistan, where the Moujahedeen (“holy warriors”) were in battle against a secular, progressive government supported by the Soviet Union;"CONTINUED


    I even explained that al-Qaeda is composed of many smaller "Terrorist" groups etc, etc




    My 14 year old niece was able to understand/"decipher" how I responded to your numbered questions so I doubt that I'll need to bother the "Mods"
    My use of the phrase "screw up" was intended this way:

    2. Slang
    To make a mess of (an undertaking).

    screw up - definition of screw up by The Free Dictionary
    And that gets to the way you arrange your quotes of my post and your replies. It's messy, it's hard to figure out what you are replying to. And it doesn't follow conventional methods provided by this forum and used by the forum members. You also allowed dangling quote instructions in your post which screws up my attempts to respond to you. For example, if I were to quote one of your screwed up posts, it would look like this:

    [QUOTE=B'smith;1064411871]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post


    REMAINDER OF COMMENT REPRINTED BELOW

    ~snipped to save space~

    Again, thanks for your time
    Note where it says "Originally Posted by Mycroft". That identifies who is being quoted and in this case, it appears that I am quoting myself...which I'm not doing. Also, the icon next to that allows one to track back to the post being quoted...but in this case, it tracks back to MY post...not yours.

    Bottom line, your inability to properly use this forum's features screws up your post and makes it difficult for me to effectively post responses to you. That's why I suggested you ask a Mod to teach you how to use this forum.

    Get educated and maybe we'll talk.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Hezbollah is an internationally recognized terrorist organization which is in overt violation of the UNSC Resolution 1559 demanding that all paramilitary organizations disarm following the withdrawal of Israel from Lebanon which was certified as complete by the UNSC in 2000, there is nothing defensive about Hezbollah it is an expansionist terror organization sworn to destroy Israel and establish a theocratic Islamic regime in its place:




    The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

    We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

    Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

    We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

    Hizbollah's Political Manifesto 2009

    An Open Letter: The Hizballah Program - Council on Foreign Relations

    We categorically reject any compromise with Israel or recognizing its legitimacy This position is definitive, even if everyone recognizes "Israel".

    Our stance on the negotiations and compromises made by the Madrid Conference,the "Araba Valley retrospect" the "Oslo Accords", the "Camp David Accord" is a totalrefusal to any kind of compromise with the Zionist entity, which is based onadmitting its legitimate presence, and giving in what it occupied from the Palestinian Arab and Islamic land. This stance is predetermined and permanent and isn't set for any compromise, even if the whole world admits to "Israel".


    Hizbollah's Political Manifesto 2009

    ___________________




    The “Council on Foreign Relations” is simply an AIPAC “Think Tank” and listed as an American Jewish Lobby/Think Tank. It is hardly an independent, scholarly & credible source.


    A independent source with current information would be far more reliable.

    Or, you could ask the surviving Southern Lebanese civilians whose homes, hospitals, schools, & Power Plants were rebuilt after IDF targeting & destruction in 2006.



    “Think tanks”
    Think tanks - SourceWatch
    EXCERPT “ Oct 01, 2012*·*Chicago Council on Foreign Relations; ... Zionist Organization of America; ... Think Tanks/Researching think tanks; Think Tank research links.” CONTINUED



    “Introduction to the Israel Lobby.”
    ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/introlobby.html***Cached
    EXCERPT “• The American Israel Public Affairs Committee ... up with the idea for an AIPAC controlled think-tank that would put ... Council on Foreign Relations, ...”CONTINUED

  9. #69
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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    ___________________

    The “Council on Foreign Relations” is simply an AIPAC “Think Tank” and listed as an American Jewish Lobby/Think Tank. It is hardly an independent, scholarly & credible source.
    A) That is a verbatim transcript of the Hezbollah manifesto, the CFR is not the primary source the primary source is Hezbollah.

    B) Listed by who? Neo-Nazi pigs and Islamic Fascist swine who think Jews control everything? The CFR has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism.

    A independent source with current information would be far more reliable.
    The source is Hezbollah, your assertions regarding the CFR is borderline anti-Semitic conspiracy theory nonsense.

    Or, you could ask the surviving Southern Lebanese civilians whose homes, hospitals, schools, & Power Plants were rebuilt after IDF targeting & destruction in 2006.
    Or we can ask the Israelis whose soldiers were kidnapped and killed and citizens rocketed prior to the start of the conflict, spare me your nonsense, it was Hezbollah that were the aggressors, Israel was defending itself.

    ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/introlobby.html***Cached

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Ya and with that I'm done here.

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    Re: Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Is ‘Extraordinarily Reasonable’

    Interesting term 'extraordinarily reasonable'.

    To me, it's sort of like saying 'magnificently adequate'.

    Or 'gigantically medium'.

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