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Thread: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    We're trying to halt or slow this mess, and we have to agree to their rules on who can do what? This sounds like "half-fixing" a problem to me - getting rid of some, so others can take over the leadership role. Did we agree to this?
    President Pinprick, maybe looking ahead to his party's prospects in 2016, felt the need to have several Arab nations join the U.S. effort against the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. Their puny air forces have contributed next to nothing, but just the existence of this "coalition" helps Pinprick cover his rear. I can just hear him: "Americans are seeing that the local folks, too, are joining our efforts to drive back the forces of hatred and violence. The extremists who set fire to a Jordanian pilot only fanned the flames of freedom."

    The whole business of trying to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis, et al. by showing them how nice and reasonable Americans are--how we are so fastidiously careful always to use only the tiniest, most accurate weapons possible to avoid hurting any innocent people--only makes those "innocent" feel contempt for us as spineless fools. So the jihadists hang out comfortably in Raqqa and Mosul and Tikrit and Ramadi, confident that Pinprick won't dare touch them there. And, sad to say, they are right. Why any of the cities these bastards control still has bridges, or electricity, or running water, or phone service, or a sewage system, or fuel, or passable roads, or airports, or any of the other accoutrements of modern life after all this time is beyond me. We should let all those "innocent" Iraqis act like they have no choice but to shelter the savages in their cities, I guess, without paying any price whatever for turning a blind eye to them. Forty thousands French civilians were killed in the course of driving the Nazis out of their country after Normandy, of course--but we are more civilized now than in 1944.

    The main thing is to resist our tendency as Americans, clinging to our guns and Bibles, to be bloodthirsty cowboys. After all, arms are for hugging, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and violence never solves anything. Surely a more nuanced, sophisticated approach is called for--what a European, say, would do. We need to let the local Muslims see we are sensitive to their needs and feelings, and want them to feel empowered. Who can doubt that making sure we never make them feel all icky and invalidated is more important than exterminating the lice who are decapitating and crucifying little children and Christians, and burning people alive in steel cages, as they meanwhile plot to come here and murder as many Americans as they can? Yes, sure the extremists push people accused of homosexuality off tall buildings, and sure, they execute a dozen teenage boys for watching a soccer match on TV, and sure, they sadistically taunt prisoners on camera before sawing off their heads, and sure, they bury little kids alive and rape and enslave women. But all that's only because they don't have jobs!

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    President Pinprick, maybe looking ahead to his party's prospects in 2016, felt the need to have several Arab nations join the U.S. effort against the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. Their puny air forces have contributed next to nothing, but just the existence of this "coalition" helps Pinprick cover his rear. I can just hear him: "Americans are seeing that the local folks, too, are joining our efforts to drive back the forces of hatred and violence. The extremists who set fire to a Jordanian pilot only fanned the flames of freedom."

    The whole business of trying to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis, et al. by showing them how nice and reasonable Americans are--how we are so fastidiously careful always to use only the tiniest, most accurate weapons possible to avoid hurting any innocent people--only makes those "innocent" feel contempt for us as spineless fools. So the jihadists hang out comfortably in Raqqa and Mosul and Tikrit and Ramadi, confident that Pinprick won't dare touch them there. And, sad to say, they are right. Why any of the cities these bastards control still has bridges, or electricity, or running water, or phone service, or a sewage system, or fuel, or passable roads, or airports, or any of the other accoutrements of modern life after all this time is beyond me. We should let all those "innocent" Iraqis act like they have no choice but to shelter the savages in their cities, I guess, without paying any price whatever for turning a blind eye to them. Forty thousands French civilians were killed in the course of driving the Nazis out of their country after Normandy, of course--but we are more civilized now than in 1944.

    The main thing is to resist our tendency as Americans, clinging to our guns and Bibles, to be bloodthirsty cowboys. After all, arms are for hugging, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and violence never solves anything. Surely a more nuanced, sophisticated approach is called for--what a European, say, would do. We need to let the local Muslims see we are sensitive to their needs and feelings, and want them to feel empowered. Who can doubt that making sure we never make them feel all icky and invalidated is more important than exterminating the lice who are decapitating and crucifying little children and Christians, and burning people alive in steel cages, as they meanwhile plot to come here and murder as many Americans as they can? Yes, sure the extremists push people accused of homosexuality off tall buildings, and sure, they execute a dozen teenage boys for watching a soccer match on TV, and sure, they sadistically taunt prisoners on camera before sawing off their heads, and sure, they bury little kids alive and rape and enslave women. But all that's only because they don't have jobs!
    Well said!

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    President Pinprick, maybe looking ahead to his party's prospects in 2016, felt the need to have several Arab nations join the U.S. effort against the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. Their puny air forces have contributed next to nothing, but just the existence of this "coalition" helps Pinprick cover his rear. I can just hear him: "Americans are seeing that the local folks, too, are joining our efforts to drive back the forces of hatred and violence. The extremists who set fire to a Jordanian pilot only fanned the flames of freedom."

    The whole business of trying to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis, et al. by showing them how nice and reasonable Americans are--how we are so fastidiously careful always to use only the tiniest, most accurate weapons possible to avoid hurting any innocent people--only makes those "innocent" feel contempt for us as spineless fools. So the jihadists hang out comfortably in Raqqa and Mosul and Tikrit and Ramadi, confident that Pinprick won't dare touch them there. And, sad to say, they are right. Why any of the cities these bastards control still has bridges, or electricity, or running water, or phone service, or a sewage system, or fuel, or passable roads, or airports, or any of the other accoutrements of modern life after all this time is beyond me. We should let all those "innocent" Iraqis act like they have no choice but to shelter the savages in their cities, I guess, without paying any price whatever for turning a blind eye to them. Forty thousands French civilians were killed in the course of driving the Nazis out of their country after Normandy, of course--but we are more civilized now than in 1944.

    The main thing is to resist our tendency as Americans, clinging to our guns and Bibles, to be bloodthirsty cowboys. After all, arms are for hugging, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and violence never solves anything. Surely a more nuanced, sophisticated approach is called for--what a European, say, would do. We need to let the local Muslims see we are sensitive to their needs and feelings, and want them to feel empowered. Who can doubt that making sure we never make them feel all icky and invalidated is more important than exterminating the lice who are decapitating and crucifying little children and Christians, and burning people alive in steel cages, as they meanwhile plot to come here and murder as many Americans as they can? Yes, sure the extremists push people accused of homosexuality off tall buildings, and sure, they execute a dozen teenage boys for watching a soccer match on TV, and sure, they sadistically taunt prisoners on camera before sawing off their heads, and sure, they bury little kids alive and rape and enslave women. But all that's only because they don't have jobs!
    Had the Coalition fought as they did in WWII the Middle East would be at peace now, trade would flourish, and more people would be free. Instead it is as you describe. We see that few western democracies now want to fight, largely because of the uncertainty of what 'fight' really means anymore.

    We never fought the Germans or the Japanese to win 'their hearts and minds'. Both came after a real drubbing, and now they have abolished their previously aggressive attitudes to become the most peaceful, if not docile, nations on the planet. The only way Islamists are going to learn to live in peace is that the same lesson has to be applied. Only then will their hearts, but especially their minds, follow.

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Had the Coalition fought as they did in WWII the Middle East would be at peace now, trade would flourish, and more people would be free. Instead it is as you describe. We see that few western democracies now want to fight, largely because of the uncertainty of what 'fight' really means anymore.

    We never fought the Germans or the Japanese to win 'their hearts and minds'. Both came after a real drubbing, and now they have abolished their previously aggressive attitudes to become the most peaceful, if not docile, nations on the planet. The only way Islamists are going to learn to live in peace is that the same lesson has to be applied. Only then will their hearts, but especially their minds, follow.
    I agree completely. Sherman had it right, I think, when he said you cannot refine war--that it is all hell. Peace cannot come until the enemy has been whipped thoroughly enough that he has no doubt he is beaten. And you are right to say it is their minds which must be changed. I would not care if every Muslim on earth hated this country, if they had all been taught better than to try to do anything about it.

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Boko Haram....another threat Obama ignored.

    Actually, that's not true. When those poor girls were abducted, his wife did something: She showed up on the internet with a sign directing people to a stupid hashtag. What was it again, btw? #pleasedontbesomean ?

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I'm curious as to what, exactly, the people who stomp their feet and scream about how incompetent Obama is would like to see him do about ISIS that he's not already doing.

    An Op/Ed from the Washington Times by retired Navy Three Star James “Ace” Lyons . . . CINCPACFLT
    “A strategy, but not a pro-U.S. One”

    By James A. Lyons - - Monday, February 9, 2015

    The "wise men" — Henry Kissinger and George Schultz, plus Madeleine Albright, who testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Jan. 29, lamented that the Obama administration has no coherent strategy to address the ongoing monumental world changes, particularly in the Middle East. Mr. Kissinger stated that multiple changes are occurring simultaneously between and within various states such as Iraq, Syria and Libya. The changes involve the traditional Sunni-Shia sectarian violence and atrocities that have gone on for hundreds of years, but the new phenomenon is the Islamic State and its declaration of a caliphate.

    All of the former secretaries concurred on the obvious point that we have to identify our objective and then develop a strategy to achieve it. If the administration's objective is to defeat the Islamic State and other Islamic radical movements, we do not have a strategy. However, it is wrong to imply that the Obama administration does not have a strategy or that its members are incompetent.

    Their strategy by now should be clear to all thinking Americans. It is embedded in the Barack Obama-Valerie Jarrett strategy to "transform America." It is an anti-American and anti-Western, but a pro-Islam, pro-Iran and pro-Muslim Brotherhood strategy.

    The Obama administration's embrace of the Muslim Brotherhood took place long before January 2009. It is critical to remember that the Muslim Brotherhood's creed is to destroy America from within by "our own hands," and substitute the Draconian Islamic Shariah for our Constitution. President Obama's June 4, 2009 Cairo outreach speech to the Muslim world, where he invited the leaders of the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood to attend and sat them prominently in the front row, should have been a wake-up call. Furthermore, when he declared that he considered it his responsibility as president of the United States to fight negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear — that actually said it all.

    End of Part 1... of 2 parts
    Wake Up America!

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    An Op/Ed from the Washington Times by retired Navy Three Star James “Ace” Lyons . . . CINCPACFLT
    “A strategy, but not a pro-U.S. One”

    By James A. Lyons - - Monday, February 9, 2015

    Part 2 of the Op/Ed

    His September 2012 speech to the U.N. General Assembly, where he stated in reference to the Benghazi debacle that "the future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," showed where his sympathies lie. What most Americans don't understand is that the Libyan war was unnecessary because Col. Moammar Gadhafi was willing to abdicate. New secret tapes from the Pentagon clearly undermine the claim of then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton that there was an impending humanitarian crisis in Benghazi. After just a 45-minute meeting with Muslim Brotherhood spokesman, Mahmoud Jibril, in the Paris Westin Hotel, Mrs. Clinton was convinced of the need to go to war in Libya. She chose to ignore all the advice of our military and intelligence leaders that did not support her determination to go to war.

    Gen. Carter Ham, the AFRICOM commander, was actually negotiating at the time with key Gadhafi confidants for a 72-hour truce. This has been verified by several credible sources, including then-Rep. Dennis Kucinich. As the tapes show, Mrs. Clinton wanted a war regardless of the fact that no U.S. Interests were at stake, and regional stability could be threatened by our intervention. In fact, Mrs. Clinton is apparently the one who ordered the Pentagon to cease negotiations. With the incestuous relations between key administration officials and the major TV networks, this has not been reported or has been underplayed.

    The net effect of Mrs. Clinton's policy decision was that we switched sides on the global war on terrorism and provided arms and material support to al Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood-controlled militias. Some of these were the same militias that later attacked our facilities in Benghazi, killing four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens. Fortunately, Rep. Trey Gowdy's select committee investigating the Benghazi tragedy has indicated that it will review these new tapes before calling Mrs. Clinton to testify.

    It was during the Libyan war that the Obama administration declared its new "leading from behind" strategy, which signaled our withdrawal from our world leadership role. The unilateral disarmament of our military forces in a world undergoing monumental change made no sense but certainly was welcomed by our enemies and the Islamic supremacists. Our precipitous withdrawal from Iraq certainly can be viewed as an "appeasement" signal to Iran in Mr. Obama's senseless quest for any type of nuclear weapons agreement with the evil regime of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The concessions might already border on treason.

    The latest move by the Obama administration — hosting a group of leaders aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood at the State Department, whose objective is to obtain support for the overthrow of Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi — was unconscionable. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt shortly thereafter announced a call for a "long, uncompromising jihad." We should not forget that it is President el-Sissi who has called for the reformation of Islam. In fact, as a follow-on effort, leading Sunni clerics should establish a forum to revise interpretation of Islam's 7th century violent Koranic verses. This would be a dramatic act since it has not been tried in more than 1,300 years.

    The character of the Obama administration is very clear — never more so than with the continued release of hardened terrorists from Guantanamo Bay. The limited air strikes against the barbaric Islamic State should be seen as further evidence as to where White House sympathies lie. With the administration's disastrous immigration policies and the resettlement of an unknown number of Muslims throughout the country, Congress must act now to preserve our Constitution and the American way of life. As a first order of business, both the House and the Senate should start censure proceedings against Mr. Obama for his unconstitutional acts.

    • James A. Lyons, a U.S. Navy retired admiral, was commander-in-chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet and senior U.S. military representative to the United Nations.
    Wake Up America!

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Oh wow, a Moonie Times op-ed piece.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well it helps with the Psych Game.....especially if we help then check out by fire. Wherein they can't attain Paradise or any part of their so called heaven. Means they wont be part of Allah nor the afterlife.

    We just need to set examples for them so that can't miss the point.

    Also they fear the Djinn. Coming at night.....in the dark. Where they can't scream for help.
    The problem is, we all know that doesn't work. People used to pretend that air dropping bacon on them would stop them in their tracks. It won't. They'll just change their beliefs so it isn't a problem anymore. That's what they did with bacon, some imam just declared that if it wasn't voluntary, it didn't count.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Boko Haram swears formal allegiance to ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The problem is, we all know that doesn't work. People used to pretend that air dropping bacon on them would stop them in their tracks. It won't. They'll just change their beliefs so it isn't a problem anymore. That's what they did with bacon, some imam just declared that if it wasn't voluntary, it didn't count.
    That might have worked if this was a food fight we were in but I'd prefer to hear more serious strategies.

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