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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    8 years of school, + whatever years of specialisation + practical application of all it + learning to use new techniques in that field. What you're not certain of is irrelevant. If being a ****ing neurosurgeon doesn't require much intelligence, I'm sure you'll be able to do it? Get serious and cut the partisanship. It's bull****.
    I have known many people with advanced degrees who are morons.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    The difficulty, for you and Cardinal, is that you don't appreciate that having a government sanctioned marriage license has yet to be determined to be a constitutional right of birth or citizenship. I appreciate your view and his - as I've said, if the government is going to be in the marriage business, I don't believe the government should be dictating what is or isn't a marriage for purposes of the license and the benefits and privileges that accrue to holding that license.

    But it's false to claim it is a constitutional right at this point in time. The Supreme Court may very well rule that way, in which case your interpretation will be validated. I simply point out that at this time, the issuance of marriage licenses is a State responsibility, not a federal one. Until the time comes when the Supreme Court rules contrary to that point, I support States being able to establish legislation they are constitutionally charged with.
    Even when SCOTUS does determine this, nothing makes anyone 'agree' with it. They may have to comply but not agree.

    That's the disturbing part. BC seems to believe in separate but equal for gays. So, still, do some people for blacks. Some still want abortion illegal, some dont believe that individuals have the right to carry guns on their persons. When *politicians* make these claims, of course it calls their true intentions (in potential positions of power) into question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have known many people with advanced degrees who are morons.
    Well said.

    th (3).jpg
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have known many people with advanced degrees who are morons.
    That's great, Ben Carson doesn't just have an advanced degree. He is a well respected member of his professional community. With that said, his professional life, which is all any of us have as evidence of his intelligence shows him to be a intelligent man. Again, his comments may have been stupid, but he certainly isn't a stupid person.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    The difficulty, for you and Cardinal, is that you don't appreciate that having a government sanctioned marriage license has yet to be determined to be a constitutional right of birth or citizenship.
    14 Supreme Court Cases: Marriage is a Fundamental Right | American Foundation for Equal Rights

    Fourteen times since 1888, the United States Supreme Court has stated that marriage is a fundamental right of all individuals. In these cases, the Court has reaffirmed that “freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage” is “one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause,” “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” and “sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

    Here is a list of the fourteen cases, with links to the opinions and citations to the Court’s discussion of the right to marry.

    Maynard v. Hill, 125 U.S. 190, 205, 211 (1888): Marriage is “the most important relation in life” and “the foundation of the family and society, without which there would be neither civilization nor progress.”

    Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390, 399 (1923): The right “to marry, establish a home and bring up children” is a central part of liberty protected by the Due Process Clause.

    Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942): Marriage “one of the basic civil rights of man,” “fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race.”

    Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 486 (1965): “We deal with a right of privacy older than the Bill of Rights—older than our political parties, older than our school system. Marriage is a coming together for better or for worse, hopefully enduring, and intimate to the degree of being sacred. It is an association that promotes a way of life, not causes; a harmony in living, not political faiths; a bilateral loyalty, not commercial or social projects. Yet it is an association for as noble a purpose as any involved in our prior decisions.”

    Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1, 12 (1967): “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”

    Boddie v. Connecticut, 401 U.S. 371, 376, 383 (1971): “[M]arriage involves interests of basic importance to our society” and is “a fundamental human relationship.”

    Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur, 414 U.S. 632, 639-40 (1974): “This Court has long recognized that freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage and family life is one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

    Moore v. City of East Cleveland, 431 U.S. 494, 499 (1977) (plurality): “[W]hen the government intrudes on choices concerning family living arrangements, this Court must examine carefully the importance of the governmental interests advanced and the extent to which they are served by the challenged regulation.”

    Carey v. Population Services International, 431 U.S. 678, 684-85 (1977): “[I]t is clear that among the decisions that an individual may make without unjustified government interference are personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and child rearing and education.”

    Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978): “[T]he right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.”
    Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78, 95 (1987): “[T]he decision to marry is a fundamental right” and an “expression[ ] of emotional support and public commitment.”

    Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992): “These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

    M.L.B. v. S.L.J., 519 U.S. 102, 116 (1996): “Choices about marriage, family life, and the upbringing of children are among associational rights this Court has ranked as ‘of basic importance in our society,’ rights sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

    Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 574 (2003): “[O]ur laws and tradition afford constitutional protection to personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and education. … Persons in a homosexual relationship may seek autonomy for these purposes, just as heterosexual persons do.”
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's great, Ben Carson doesn't just have an advanced degree. He is a well respected member of his professional community. With that said, his professional life, which is all any of us have as evidence of his intelligence shows him to be a intelligent man. Again, his comments may have been stupid, but he certainly isn't a stupid person.
    He believes that prison turns people gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I mean what about this headline?: "Ben Carson: Religion is needed to interpret science because ‘maybe it’s just propaganda’."
    That's 'evidence' to the contrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Even when SCOTUS does determine this, nothing makes anyone 'agree' with it. They may have to comply but not agree.

    That's the disturbing part. BC seems to believe in separate but equal for gays. So, still, do some people for blacks. Some still want abortion illegal, some dont believe that individuals have the right to carry guns on their persons. When *politicians* make these claims, of course it calls their true intentions (in potential positions of power) into question.
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. What Carson, and many others agree, says is that civil unions should be given, under legislation, the exact same benefits and privileges as marriage, without changing the historical definition of marriage. The gay community has move past that position to wanting/demanding SSM codified. I don't argue against their position, but it's not fair to claim it's a matter of equal rights when it's simply a matter of dispute over definition now.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    You have confused personal beliefs with support of states rights. As an example, I oppose government involvement in health care but I support the right of Mass. to enact Romneycare. If the majority of a state want to inflict that on themselves, states rights gives them a choice.
    Carson can't have it both ways and that's just what the LGBT community sees in a statement like this:
    Carson said he supports rights and Constitutional protections for LGBT people plus the right for states to approve or deny gay marriage.
    One cannot say they support rights in one breathe while then voicing support of the state to deny those rights in the next.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. What Carson, and many others agree, says is that civil unions should be given, under legislation, the exact same benefits and privileges as marriage, without changing the historical definition of marriage. The gay community has move past that position to wanting/demanding SSM codified. I don't argue against their position, but it's not fair to claim it's a matter of equal rights when it's simply a matter of dispute over definition now.
    That's because marriage wasnt an option and wasnt being offered. For yrs previously however, gays were being thrown a bone with civil union proposals. (no pun intended)

    No gay people went around not desiring marriage and requesting CU's instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. What Carson, and many others agree, says is that civil unions should be given, under legislation, the exact same benefits and privileges as marriage, without changing the historical definition of marriage. The gay community has move past that position to wanting/demanding SSM codified. I don't argue against their position, but it's not fair to claim it's a matter of equal rights when it's simply a matter of dispute over definition now.
    How is denying gay people the right to marry, which SCOTUS has said is a fundamental right, not a denial of equal rights?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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