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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry, I deal in the real world, not in some ideological bubble where all things are decided for me.
    So deal in the real world already and explain how if you support the right of states to discriminate against LGBT's, you have supported the rights of LGBT's.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I believe that States have constitutional rights - one of those may be to define marriage as they see fit. I didn't write the constitution and I'm not so presumptuous as to assume I could have done it better. It is what it is and the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of disputes in that regard. I'm fine with that.

    I'm not aware of any document that states or inherent right that's a given, that places the definition of marital status as greater than law. It's why I believe the government shouldn't be in the marriage business and why this fight wouldn't exist if government sanctioned benefits and privileges didn't accrue to those who hold a government sanctioned marriage certificate.

    All that said, if the government is going to continue to be in the marriage business and continue to mete our privileges and benefits based on their piece of paper, then I'm all for any two people entering into such a contract/agreement. I don't, however, believe that the privilege of holding a piece of paper is greater than a State's constitutional rights to legislate.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    To be fair, Carson believes that gays can have equal rights under the law without having the definition of marriage altered to accommodate that equality. Many agree - many don't.
    I think our history has proven that "separate, but equal" is not equal.

    As for Carson being rendered ineligible to be President if he has a misunderstanding of constitutional law, you'd have to agree that the current President, who's been shot down by the Supreme Court in a couple of instances, should be removed from office.
    Not just a misunderstanding about some trivial portion of constitutional law, but something that is fundamental to understanding how the law works. The idea that a state law can deprive someone of their rights simply because a majority voted for it demonstrates a fundamental confusion about rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So deal in the real world already and explain how if you support the right of states to discriminate against LGBT's, you have supported the rights of LGBT's.
    I already have - just because you fail to understand or refuse to accept the explanation doesn't dismiss that fact.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post

    I mean what about this headline?: "Ben Carson: Religion is needed to interpret science because ‘maybe it’s just propaganda’." That's some far out ****, if you ask me.
    .
    Is that real? Or from the Onion?

    If real, it's terrifying. I wouldnt have him as my doctor either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I think our history has proven that "separate, but equal" is not equal.



    Not just a misunderstanding about some trivial portion of constitutional law, but something that is fundamental to understanding how the law works. The idea that a state law can deprive someone of their rights simply because a majority voted for it demonstrates a fundamental confusion about rights.
    I'd suggest the fundamental misunderstanding in this instance is on your part since the Supreme Court has yet to rule whether or not there is a constitutional right to marriage and what the definition of marriage may or may not be if that right exists.

    I'll defer, of course, if you can point out for me what section of the US constitution explicitly provides for the right to a marriage license for anyone, SSM or otherwise.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I already have - just because you fail to understand or refuse to accept the explanation doesn't dismiss that fact.
    No, you've hidden behind lengthy and obscure explanations of your principles in order to avoid facing that you can't apply your principles in this case.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'd suggest the fundamental misunderstanding in this instance is on your part since the Supreme Court has yet to rule whether or not there is a constitutional right to marriage and what the definition of marriage may or may not be if that right exists.
    Wrong, SCOTUS has already ruled that marriage is a fundamental right.

    Carson has said that gays should have the same rights

    Well, unless it's called marriage. Then gays should not have the equal right to have the govt recognize their marriage.

    As Cardinal has pointed, it is a contradiction to say you think they have equal rights, but states should be allowed to deny them equal rights.

    I'll defer, of course, if you can point out for me what section of the US constitution explicitly provides for the right to a marriage license for anyone, SSM or otherwise.
    Again, the constitution does not allow the govt at any level to deny rights to anyone, and SCOTUS has stated that marriage is a fundamental right.

    Because you've got it backwards, you're asking the wrong question. The relevant question is "where does the constitution give states the power to deny gays their individual rights?" The answer is "it doesn't"
    Last edited by sangha; 03-05-15 at 02:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No, you've hidden behind lengthy and obscure explanations of your principles in order to avoid facing that you can't apply your principles in this case.
    Thank you for respecting my opinion and telling me what I think.

    We're done.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I am not certain that his specialty requires much intelligence
    8 years of school, + whatever years of specialisation + practical application of all it + learning to use new techniques in that field. What you're not certain of is irrelevant. If being a ****ing neurosurgeon doesn't require much intelligence, I'm sure you'll be able to do it? Get serious and cut the partisanship. It's bull****.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Regardless of how SCOTUS rules, Carson has said that gays should have the same rights

    Well, unless it's called marriage. Gays should have the equal right to have the govt recognize their marriage.

    As Cardinal has pointed, it is a contradiction to say you think they have equal rights, but states should be allowed to deny them equal rights.

    I'll defer, of course, if you can point out for me what section of the US constitution explicitly provides for the right to a marriage license for anyone, SSM or otherwise.
    The difficulty, for you and Cardinal, is that you don't appreciate that having a government sanctioned marriage license has yet to be determined to be a constitutional right of birth or citizenship. I appreciate your view and his - as I've said, if the government is going to be in the marriage business, I don't believe the government should be dictating what is or isn't a marriage for purposes of the license and the benefits and privileges that accrue to holding that license.

    But it's false to claim it is a constitutional right at this point in time. The Supreme Court may very well rule that way, in which case your interpretation will be validated. I simply point out that at this time, the issuance of marriage licenses is a State responsibility, not a federal one. Until the time comes when the Supreme Court rules contrary to that point, I support States being able to establish legislation they are constitutionally charged with.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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