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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I actually don't know what you're talking about with respect to what I've said. Let me try again.

    Carson said he thinks marriage is between a man and woman but he also said that the states have the duty to regulate marriage. If the states allow gay marriage, he accepts the decision of the state even though he disagrees with it. Some people have called it hypocritical. I've repeatedly said that it's possible to support states rights and disagree with state policy.

    I've also said that I personally don't give a **** about gay marriage. If fact I don't care enough about it to talk about it. I do care about states rights and the separation of power between the federal government and the states. I favor decentralized power and limited government and states rights are the only reason for me to waste my time talking about it.

    And your question was foolish.
    But the point is you don't recognize gay "rights" if you support the ability of states to abridge them - they are only privileges, that can be denied or granted at the will of the state. Carson tried to play it both ways - supporting "human rights and Constitutional protections for gay people" but opposing gay marriage, claiming it's a religious institution, as if that was a meaningful assertion given that marriage is available to anyone of any religion or no religion at all.

    Nice try Ben, but no cigar.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I actually don't know what you're talking about with respect to what I've said. Let me try again.

    Carson said he thinks marriage is between a man and woman but he also said that the states have the duty to regulate marriage. If the states allow gay marriage, he accepts the decision of the state even though he disagrees with it. Some people have called it hypocritical. I've repeatedly said that it's possible to support states rights and disagree with state policy.

    I've also said that I personally don't give a **** about gay marriage. If fact I don't care enough about it to talk about it. I do care about states rights and the separation of power between the federal government and the states. I favor decentralized power and limited government and states rights are the only reason for me to waste my time talking about it.


    And your question was foolish.
    I am sure you favor "states' rights" with respect to slavery, segregation, racial profiling, and a slew of other ill-conceived atrocities various states have conducted over the years, before the fed stepped in to stop them

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Your question was just to make a point to yourself. Congratulations. I hope you got your point. In an attempt to get back to reality, rights come from government and rights don't exist until government codifies them into law. You can amendment this and that but until the law is changed in every state the right for gays to marry each other simply isn't universal in this country. It's certainly not universal in the world. ISIS is pushing people off the roofs of multi story building just for being suspected of being gay. Being gay in Iran can get you seriously hurt, or dead. I think gay marriage is a rather minor issue.
    And ISIS is merely christianity a couple centuries later. Hell, private sex acts were illegal in various states until a decade ago, or you believe texas should still be able to barge into bedrooms and make arrests as they did to that gay couple? Every injustice is perceived as 'minor' when it's your own culture that's the perpetrator.

    But of course, to gay couples who have been deprived of everything from co-adoption, to hospital visitation, to immigration, court testimony, it isn't a minor issue at all, or don't they count in your view?

    If it's really minor, then the fix should be simple and it should not have led to dozens of ballot drives and hysteria from the right wing. Now those who spread lies and hate and discrimination want to downplay the importance of reversing their oppression. Well it won't fool me

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But the point is you don't recognize gay "rights" if you support the ability of states to abridge them - they are only privileges, that can be denied or granted at the will of the state. Carson tried to play it both ways - supporting "human rights and Constitutional protections for gay people" but opposing gay marriage, claiming it's a religious institution, as if that was a meaningful assertion given that marriage is available to anyone of any religion or no religion at all.

    Nice try Ben, but no cigar.
    No, I don't particularly support gay rights per se. I think that gays are the only class defined by an activity. If I started sucking dick, I could join the class. Yes, I do believe some people are born gay but I also believe that some are a result of nature and nurture. It's not a one size fits all category. A girl I used to date tried women because she thought it was trendy.

    Having said that, it's ok with me if gays get married. Just don't look for me at the rally.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    And ISIS is merely christianity a couple centuries later. Hell, private sex acts were illegal in various states until a decade ago, or you believe texas should still be able to barge into bedrooms and make arrests as they did to that gay couple? Every injustice is perceived as 'minor' when it's your own culture that's the perpetrator.

    But of course, to gay couples who have been deprived of everything from co-adoption, to hospital visitation, to immigration, court testimony, it isn't a minor issue at all, or don't they count in your view?

    If it's really minor, then the fix should be simple and it should not have led to dozens of ballot drives and hysteria from the right wing. Now those who spread lies and hate and discrimination want to downplay the importance of reversing their oppression. Well it won't fool me
    Legal civil unions would accomplish the same things that marriage would do but that's not the point. Some people feel discriminated against because they can't have the flowers and the cake. I say, let them have flowers and cake. I don't care.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Legal civil unions would accomplish the same things that marriage would do but that's not the point. Some people feel discriminated against because they can't have the flowers and the cake. I say, let them have flowers and cake. I don't care.
    I don't much care, either--as far as my own state's law is concerned. But unlike the proponents of the homosexual agenda, I respect the Constitution. Because I do, I very strongly oppose the Supreme Court's rewriting it to concoct a new "right" every intellectually honest person knows damn well it was never meant to guarantee. Every state should be free to include same-sex partners in their marriage laws, or to continue to exclude them, however a majority in the state sees fit.

    This is a lot like what the proponents of the abortion agenda were doing four decades and more ago, and they finally succeeded in persuading the Supreme Court to back their play with one of the most poorly reasoned, embarrassing decisions in its history. Roe v. Wade is such a notoriously bad piece of substantive due process garbage that for more than twenty years now, the Court itself has backed away from it. Starting with Casey in 1992, the Court stopped trying to back the absurd, arbitrary proclamation in Roe that abortion is a fundamental right. The justices, understandably, do not want to have their names associated with such a ridiculous assertion, which was never supported by one iota of legal reasoning.

    Having seen the damage one monumental turkey of a decision has done to this country, the last thing anyone should want--including homosexuals--is once again to torture the Constitution out of shape for the sake of ginning up another phony "right."

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't much care, either--as far as my own state's law is concerned. But unlike the proponents of the homosexual agenda, I respect the Constitution. Because I do, I very strongly oppose the Supreme Court's rewriting it to concoct a new "right" every intellectually honest person knows damn well it was never meant to guarantee. Every state should be free to include same-sex partners in their marriage laws, or to continue to exclude them, however a majority in the state sees fit.

    This is a lot like what the proponents of the abortion agenda were doing four decades and more ago, and they finally succeeded in persuading the Supreme Court to back their play with one of the most poorly reasoned, embarrassing decisions in its history. Roe v. Wade is such a notoriously bad piece of substantive due process garbage that for more than twenty years now, the Court itself has backed away from it. Starting with Casey in 1992, the Court stopped trying to back the absurd, arbitrary proclamation in Roe that abortion is a fundamental right. The justices, understandably, do not want to have their names associated with such a ridiculous assertion, which was never supported by one iota of legal reasoning.

    Having seen the damage one monumental turkey of a decision has done to this country, the last thing anyone should want--including homosexuals--is once again to torture the Constitution out of shape for the sake of ginning up another phony "right."
    It is dishonest to pretend that the SSM lawsuits are trying to concoct a new right when you already know that the basis of the lawsuits is equal protection, which is not a new right

    But that is consistent with your accusing me of saying the case would be subjected to strict scrutiny, and then when I prove you wrong, you disappear for two days (while posting in other threads) and then return to the thread in the hopes that your blunder will be forgotten or overlooked
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    No, I don't particularly support gay rights per se. I think that gays are the only class defined by an activity. If I started sucking dick, I could join the class. Yes, I do believe some people are born gay but I also believe that some are a result of nature and nurture. It's not a one size fits all category. A girl I used to date tried women because she thought it was trendy.

    Having said that, it's ok with me if gays get married. Just don't look for me at the rally.
    It's not the activity. Many experiment at some point but without physical attraction, you wouldn't be gay.

    It's an emotional attraction to the same sex as well, hence the desire to marry. If it were strictly "sucking dick" there would be no push for marriage rights. Then there's the mannerisms that often comes with it, to one degree or another. It can be a bona fide identity, like race or anything else.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    It's not the activity. Many experiment at some point but without physical attraction, you wouldn't be gay.

    It's an emotional attraction to the same sex as well, hence the desire to marry. If it were strictly "sucking dick" there would be no push for marriage rights. Then there's the mannerisms that often comes with it, to one degree or another. It can be a bona fide identity, like race or anything else.
    You miss the point. Every minority is designated by the accident of birth. Some gays are born gay and I believe, some are gay as a result of nature and nurture. Every individual is unique with a unique set of circumstances. One thing defines the class however and that is sexual attraction. Therefore, those who are genetically gay, and those who are gay for other reasons define their class by sexuality. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against minority status for gays, only pointing out that the class is defined by an activity, regardless of DNA or other causes. The truth is I have no idea why I'm even talking about it. That's the way I see it and I'm done, I have nothing else to say and no more to add.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    or you believe texas should still be able to barge into bedrooms and make arrests as they did to that gay couple?
    That should have been up to the majority of the residents of Texas. However silly I personally thought their sodomy law was, I would not have presumed to claim that law violated any constitutionally guaranteed right. Neither did the majority of the Supreme Court in Bowers v. Hardwick, its first "gay" decision in 1986. The Court got that case right, especially in finding that there is no fundamental constitutional right to homosexual sodomy.

    But just seventeen years later, the majority in Lawrence v. Texas overruled Bowers, basing its decision on a novel and bizarre idea that Justice Stevens had proposed in his dissenting opinion in Bowers. And that is that the belief of a majority that an act is immoral and unacceptable is not reason enough to prohibit that act by law. The fact that belief had been the basis of morals legislation in every state in this country from the very first, as well as in the laws of every civilized society we know of, did not trouble either Stevens or the Lawrence majority.

    But not wanting to look like fools, Justice Kennedy and the others in the Lawrence majority were very careful to leave untouched Bowers' holding that homosexual sodomy is not a fundamental right. At least one poster here, though--possibly feeling nothing he could say could make him look any more foolish--was less concerned about that. In post after post, he made various desperate, contrived arguments that homosexuality is a fundamental right. Apparently his Wikipedia legal research on fundamental rights had not been too thorough.

    As soon as it was pointed out that the Supreme Court in substantive due process analysis considers a right fundamental only if it is both "deeply rooted in this nation's history and traditions" and "essential to a scheme of ordered liberty"--which as Justice Scalia has rightly noted it would be "quite absurd" to claim of homosexuality--the poster began to backpedal frantically. Now he denies he ever claimed what anyone can see he repeatedly did say, right there in black and white, in post after post, and claims same-sex marriage is not about due process at all. His new story is that it is about equal protection.

    Now those who spread lies
    I think the most scurrilous spreaders of lies about all this are the proponents of the homosexual agenda. Their brazen intellectual dishonesty is right there on full display in a number of these threads, for anyone to see. But then many of them are leftists, and lying is part and parcel of being a leftist. Their fallen idol President Pinocchio is Exhibit A.

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