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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The legislature already deal with that when they passed the 14th amendment...it's therefore up to the federal courts to ensure the amendment is followed. That's pretty much the entire reason the courts exist

    That is separation of powers. The legislature passed the 14th and, as circumstances change (such as new technology, special interest groups, and ballot drives) it's up to the courts to ensure the constitution is followed. They are the legal experts, not the impotent senate.

    Basically some asshole tries to break an already existing law, that was already passed by the legislature, like equal protection, and the courts tell them no, you can't do that. That's how it's always been, from misdemeanors, to felonies, to civil rights violations

    Since our constitution mostly enumerates negative rights, court interpretation will always play an integral role in upholding it. This is unfortunate in some ways, but that's how it is
    The 14th Amendment did not exist when the courts were created.

    The court can certainly administrate a proceeding to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused but is bound by existing law that dictates the authority the court has to do that.

    The court can certainly mediate disputes by interpreting what the law says and the LAW, not the court, determines what the court's ruling will mean for the disputing parties.

    No court was intended to have authority to tell the President what bills he could sign into law and what bills he could not. No court was intended to have authority to tell the legislature what laws it could pass. If a law is challenged, the court can certainly rule on whether law is in conflict with any other law including the Constitution, but it must be up to the legislative body to then rescind or change that law to conform. It is not up to the Court to do so.

    That way we have separation of powers. A court given power to dictate to the legislative body or chief executive what it must and must not do is a court with unlimited power.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I just went back and reread post 1. It was something about a foolish comment Carson made about previously straight inmates engaging in homosexual activities while in prison.

    This is my opinion. Our rights come from government and until those rights are codified into law they right doesn't exist. There is a right to marry for gays in California and some other states, the right doesn't exist where states have not granted that right. The issue here isn't the right for gay's to marry. The issue is wether the law should be changed in all the states to create the right.
    This is why the difference between rights and powers is important

    The rights of people do not come from the govt. Instead, the powers of govt come from the people. So the issue is not if people have such a right; It's whether or not the govt has the power to limit marriage to certain people when it has no legitimate interest in doing so.

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    The constitution says no.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Perhaps you can cite the case in which they did say it was only between a man and a woman. Of course you can not because it never did, but i 14 cases dating back as far as 1888 it did say it was a personal choice.
    Good luck with your "same-sex marriage is a fundamental right brief." All you'll need to do is to show it's a right that is both "deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions" and "essential to a scheme of ordered liberty." And who could doubt either of those things, even for a moment?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not briefing a case. I understand why your example of 9 year olds marrying fails, and what the various rulings on SSM say. I might suggest reading those rulings, you could learn allot.
    I'm learning allot just by reading your posts.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Good luck with your "same-sex marriage is a fundamental right brief." All you'll need to do is to show it's a right that is both "deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions" and "essential to a scheme of ordered liberty." And who could doubt either of those things, even for a moment?
    "Fundamental right" isn't the argument. Equal protection under the law is. Why do you keep dodging that?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    You can read a newspaper and see how this works in the real world. Not all states grant the right for gays to marry. The reason for that is states rights. The Feds don't have the authority to interfere with states authority to regulate marriage. That fight is being fought in state legislatures. Familiarize yourself with that.
    So, do you think the states have the right to define marriage as between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Prove it. Cite even one case in which the Court so much as implied its comments about a fundamental right to marriage extended to any form of marriage beyond the one under consideration in that case--marriage between one man and one woman.
    The court hasn't said I have right to put cream in my coffee, yet I certainly do.

    But the court has said that marriage is a fundamental right. I have already proven that by linking to 14 cases where they have said so. Therefore, the question is not if it is a right, but under what conditions the state can limit that right
    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    If your assertion were true, any comments the Court ever made about marriage being a fundamental right would mean there is a fundamental right to every kind of marriage. But it is obvious to most of us that the Court has never meant to imply there is a fundamental right to bigamy or incestuous marriage, for example.
    I have posted a SCOTUS quote that clearly and explicitly states why the state has an interest in prohiting such marriages. There is no legitimate interest in prohibiting SSM.


    No, my argument was based on the fact that the Court has never subjected state laws against bigamy, polygamy, incestuous marriage, etc. to strict scrutiny. If your assertion that the fundamental right to marriage is not limited to marriage between one man and one woman were true, there would be a fundamental right to those forms of marriage too. And the Court subjects laws which restrict fundamental rights to strict scrutiny.
    Why the bans on bigamy, polyfamy, etc are able to pass strict scrutiny has already been posted, along with a court citation that clearly and explicitly states why the state has an interest in prohibiting such marriages



    I just recited the proof. If the Court considered bigamy, polygamy, incestuous marriage, and child marriage fundamental rights, then state laws which prohibit those forms of marriage would be subject to strict scrutiny. Obviously they are not.
    Obviously they are, and the prohibitions have passed the scrutiny
    Last edited by sangha; 03-07-15 at 05:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Good luck with your "same-sex marriage is a fundamental right brief."
    I hardly need any luck, not to mention that is not what I asked. I take your diversion as a confirmation of what I said.

    All you'll need to do is to show it's a right that is both "deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions" and "essential to a scheme of ordered liberty." And who could doubt either of those things, even for a moment?
    You mean like slavery was deeply rooted in our tradition? I really do not expect you to grasp the ordered liberty part.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    No, it is due to the fact that Anthony Kennedy and the other justices on the Court understand constitutional law very well and do not want to embarrass themselves by making ridiculous claims.
    The only ridiculous thing here is your believing that you know Justice Kennedy's motive.

    Your position is so absurd that you've been reduced to claiming that you can read his mind.

    The court is going to rule that bans on SSM are unconstitutional and they will do so on the grounds that I have said they will - because the govt has no legitimate interest in doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The only ridiculous thing here is your believing that you know Justice Kennedy's motive.

    Your position is so absurd that you've been reduced to claiming that you can read his mind.

    The court is going to rule that bans on SSM are unconstitutional and they will do so on the grounds that I have said they will - because the govt has no legitimate interest in doing so.
    Word to matchlight: I've got your post bookmarked.

    Come June, we'll talk.

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