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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Carson is pure Comedy Gold. Can't wait for the idiotic gaffes to dribble from this oaf's mouth.
    Funny, you didn't mind having Biden as your VP.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Funny, you didn't mind having Biden as your VP.
    I didn't vote for Obama or Biden either time.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    I didn't vote for Obama or Biden either time.
    I'm going to have to watch you closer then.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm going to have to watch you closer then.
    Black helicopters!
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, you are not understanding. Marriage is a fundamental right. That does not mean that it cannot be regulated to an extent, just as the right to free speech does not mean you can libel others or "cry fire in a crowded theater". Being a fundamental right, any law that limits that right must meet certain criteria.
    Please explain to those of us who lack your understanding of constitutional law the extent to which state laws can regulate a fundamental right like marriage. Just what are those "certain criteria," exactly, that state laws restricting fundamental rights have to meet? Tell us just what standard a right has to meet to be fundamental and apply to the states in Fourteenth Amendment due process analysis. How can states so cruelly violate the fundamental right to marriage in all their laws against bigamy and polygamy, and ones that exclude partners who are nine years old or who are brother and sister from marriage, and get away with it?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Please explain to those of us who lack your understanding of constitutional law the extent to which state laws can regulate a fundamental right like marriage. Just what are those "certain criteria," exactly, that state laws restricting fundamental rights have to meet? Tell us just what standard a right has to meet to be fundamental and apply to the states in Fourteenth Amendment due process analysis. How can states so cruelly violate the fundamental right to marriage in all their laws against bigamy and polygamy, and ones that exclude partners who are nine years old or who are brother and sister from marriage, and get away with it?
    Lets use your example of laws barring 9 year olds from marrying. Based on the 14th amendment, there are 3 levels of scrutiny that could apply. The most strict is called Strict Scrutiny, which applies in cases of fundamental rights. For a law restricting a fundamental right, it must pass 3 tests:

    1: The law must be a compelling government interest. This is somewhat vague, but it is certainly safe to say that protecting minors is a compelling government interest, so no problem on that front.
    2: The law must be narrowly tailored to achieve the interest. In this case, a law prohibiting minors below a certain age would fit, as it applies to that interest.
    3: The law must be the least restrictive means for achieving that interest. Again, in this example, making it illegal for those under a certain age to marry is the least restrictive way to achieve that interest.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That statement is not accurate. There is no fundamental right of nine-year-olds to marry. Neither is there any fundamental right to bigamous and polygamous marriage, or to incestuous marriage. And to date, the Supreme Court has never implied there is any fundamental right to homosexual marriage.

    You might want to look into the standards the Court applies to determine if a right is fundamental, for the purpose of applying to the states in Fourteenth Amendment substantive due process analysis. It's stated pretty well in Washington v. Glucksberg, and Justice Scalia discusses it in detail in his dissenting opinion in Lawrence v. Texas.
    You are playing word games. SCOTUS has clearly stated that marriage is a fundamental right. In the circumstances you mention, the state has a legitimate interest that is furthered by such limitations.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    I have to give Carson credit for his apology. It wasn't half assed and it came off as completely thorough and sincere. Kudos to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Did you oppose the war in Iraq and support the troops?
    Yes. I did not support the war, but I supported the troops. Opposing the war by not supporting the troops, not taking emotional/moral arguments into consideration, is patently ridiculous, because it's not our soldiers who chose which war they would be deployed to. So my opposition to the war was directed toward the people who created it in the first place: the Bush administration. However, I believe that soldiers should receive much better veteran benefits than they currently do.

    Would you rather not wear a seat belt but wear one because the state says you must?
    I don't understand the relevance of this question to the topic.

    Do you oppose the KKK but understand the government protects their free speech.
    I really don't understand the relevance of this one. So does Carson oppose LGBT rights?

    Is the Westborough Church allowed to protest their lunacy because their free speech rights are protected? Life is full of situations where we personally oppose activities which are protected by the state. When we do this, we respect the supremacy of governments power to organize society while we disagree with what that power enforces.
    Er...yes, but Carson said he supports LGBT rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I don't support Obama's illegal alien policy but I have to accept it because I have now power to stop it. My belief is incompatible with the actions of the state. Doesn't make me a hypocrite. Likewise, it's possible to support states rights but disagree with states on issues.
    Alright, that's nice, but Carson said he supports both LGBT rights while supporting the rights of an entity to discriminate against them. CandaJohn wasn't able to answer this question so perhaps you can take a whack at it: how do you demonstrate the rights of the state to discriminate against LGBT's while equally supporting LGBT rights?

    At the very least Carson is prioritizing one over the other, because if one wins, the other is going to lose.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yes. I did not support the war, but I supported the troops. Opposing the war by not supporting the troops, not taking emotional/moral arguments into consideration, is patently ridiculous, because it's not our soldiers who chose which war they would be deployed to. So my opposition to the war was directed toward the people who created it in the first place: the Bush administration. However, I believe that soldiers should receive much better veteran benefits than they currently do.



    I don't understand the relevance of this question to the topic.



    I really don't understand the relevance of this one. So does Carson oppose LGBT rights?



    Er...yes, but Carson said he supports LGBT rights.



    Alright, that's nice, but Carson said he supports both LGBT rights while supporting the rights of an entity to discriminate against them. CandaJohn wasn't able to answer this question so perhaps you can take a whack at it: how do you demonstrate the rights of the state to discriminate against LGBT's while equally supporting LGBT rights?

    At the very least Carson is prioritizing one over the other, because if one wins, the other is going to lose.
    I think he is playing politician with a very fast moving topic. It's changing so fast that I think holding both positions at this point allows him to appease the conservatives who don't want the change but the changes' inevitability will allow him to claim support before all the walls fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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