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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The answer is that we are all predisposed to be straight. Evolution chose our sexuality, however, somewhere along the line our social evolution allowed us more liberties, where our sexual urges were not dealt with by our built-in self gratification mechanism, but instead consciously and consensually and in some cases without consent, on others. Masturbation is generally agreed upon by most biologists and anthropologists to be a vestige (Yes they actually use that word) of our ancestral lack of mates at any given moment throughout history. It was a way of us to cope with our needs and urges without upsetting the social hierarchy. It was an evolutionary advantages for us, and a necessary one. I think it still is, but I do understand how many might think of it as a vestige leftover in our DNA.

    That said, it is typically not in dispute that we evolve socially much faster than we have biologically, and as a result for anyone that thinks about this in more objective scientific terms, it's not hard to make the logical connection why some might assume homosexuality is more a socially conscious choice than it is anything related to our biological and evolutionary disposition.


    Tim-
    Who says we're all predisposed to be straight? Pat Robertson? Or is that your opinion?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Are you offering this as a bit of trivia or as an excuse?


    It's a fact. There are lots of doctors who aren't as smart as they think they are about a lot of topics.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    You're the one who claimed to be the biologist. I observed not a rather professional mindset for one... ignoring the results of a scientific study of 7,600 pairs of identical twins, specifically related to whether homosexuality is a choice or not.

    It's a choice.
    So you chose to be be straight? Is that what you are saying about sexual orientation?

    (See, I try to stick to the discussion)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Yours is a junior high debate tactic. Does not work here. Welcome to the Big Leagues.

    This is not about me, but about a scientific study of 7,600 Swedish identical twins related to homosexuality being a choice or not.

    It's a choice.
    Oh the irony, not to mention the ignorance and you bring up junior high. Can you cite where in that study was a definitive conclusion reached?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I took your challenge, care to answer me, Lursa?

    Tim-
    My, that's a bit demanding on the Internet.

    I did so, by choice, before seeing your 'demand.' Sorry you are not my priority in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Actually, Carson's argument, even though he never meant it this way, is an illustrative way to show these or those that think homosexuality is the same as being a race or gender, need only ask themselves whether going to jail could in any way force someone to go black, if white, or turn female if male?

    Often on these forums those that are in support of gay rights will say that being gay is a state of mind, as if this actually has any material or practical meaning within the proper syntax and understanding of linguistics. A state of mind is always fluid, almost never static,
    So your mind alternates between attraction to opposite sex and attraction to same sex, got it!

    You're making the class mistake of conflating same sex acts and same sex attraction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    and ones state of mind is wholly dependent on the circumstances and influences they are embroiled in. For instance, I'm not a murderer, and I have never killed anyone (that's my story and I'm sticking to it ), however, sometimes when I watch the news, or I encounter evil, I have often placed myself in that mindset whereby, I actually think if presented with the opportunity, I would indeed take someone's life. Anger, emotions, rage, all of which are uncontrollable urges we have no real understanding of
    This is kind of disturbing...i dunno about you but i don't experience 'uncontrollable rage' just cause of crap on tv.

    I don't think you understand that the sex drive is quite different and not dependent on any trigger really. It's not like if i were put in a padded cell i would stop having homosexual thoughts. No amount of staring at tits or even sex with females will do the trick either. The urges come consistently, with or without provocation. It's just not the same as getting upset at crap on the news


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    , but at the time, other than actually taking action, I am for all intents and purposes a murderer, or someone capable of it. This is what a state of mind means in any context, and syntax is properly established and logical, however, until I actual do take action I am not a murderer, but the narrative from the gay left is that, regardless, I am still a murderer just like whether I was actually being gay or acting gay.
    no, we are the ones making a distinction between gay thoughts and acts, just like you have murderous thoughts but don't (i hope) commit murder


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    It's why some younger females experiment with bi-sexuality or exclusive lesbianism, and why some men do at early ages, but what I find curious is that, boys who experiment seem to adopt the almost always exclusive homosexual identification, whilst young ladies, either adopt an adult bi-sexuality (until later in life where they ultimately choose one or the other but rarely both) or heterosexuality, with only a very small margin of those younger females that experiment choose or adopt an identity that is exclusively homosexual. The differences in the sexes and sexuality is often overlooked in psyche circles, why? I have no real way of knowing, but I suspect that it feels uncomfortable for them to explore with the intuitive answer being females can choose their sexuality more often than not, whilst men seem to not be as so fluid, suggesting that, at least with females sexuality is a choice. Something I suspect leaves psychologist and apologists really confused.
    This is quite possibly correct that, for some at least, lesbianism is more fluid. I suppose it has to do with the effect of hormones in the womb being different (androgen vs estrogen or whatever)



    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The inescapable fact is though, that sexuality to one degree or another is fluid, somewhat of a choice, and defined by ones state of mind at any given moment.

    Tim-
    Sweeping generalizations like this don't help. For some it might be, probably somewhere in the middle of the sexuality continuum, while for others, it definitely is not fluid. I've never been attracted to females, for instance, so where is the fluidity in that? Where is the choice in that?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Who says we're all predisposed to be straight? Pat Robertson? Or is that your opinion?
    It's my opinion, but it's not like it isn't supported by our observations is it? All of the species that lived and have ever lived as far as we know maintain a female.male sexual copulation strategy. Outside of some very few examples, and outside of ones ideological perspective, is it really that much of a leap for you?

    Tim-
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    That said, it is typically not in dispute that we evolve socially much faster than we have biologically, and as a result for anyone that thinks about this in more objective scientific terms, it's not hard to make the logical connection why some might assume homosexuality is more a socially conscious choice than it is anything related to our biological and evolutionary disposition.


    Tim-
    Where do you see some kind of social advantage? Why would a young teenager in podunkville make a 'socially conscious choice' to be ostracized to no end? That just doesn't make sense

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    It's my opinion, but it's not like it isn't supported by our observations is it? All of the species that lived and have ever lived as far as we know maintain a female.male sexual copulation strategy. Outside of some very few examples, and outside of ones ideological perspective, is it really that much of a leap for you?

    Tim-
    Okay...just checking.

    Is it really that much of a leap for me? Uhmmmmm...is that a wee bit of sarcasm being thrown my way?

    But at least I did post something with a little bit more scientific spin on it. See post #196, which is the OPINION by the American Psychological Association regarding "Sexual Orientation".

    Check it out and see if it's too much of a leap for you.

    Otay?

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    It's a fact. There are lots of doctors who aren't as smart as they think they are about a lot of topics.
    I am not denying the factual aspect at all, I just don't think that it is relevant when we are talking about a specific doctor. Had we been talking about doctors saying or doing stupid things I would have brought up Howard Dean, just to balance the political aspect.

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