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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

  1. #141
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There's nothing circular about repeating the relevant points in order to show how the other points are irrelevant

    Marriage is a fundamental right. This is a fact, and I've shown that SCOTUS has stated this.

    Carson believes that gays should have equal rights. This (ie "should have") is an opinion, but it is a fact that this is his opinion.

    If gays should have equal rights, and marriage is a right, then gays should have the right to marry. It is a contradiction to claim you both support equal rights *and* the power of states to deny some people their rights.

    There's no getting around that. If you're getting dizzy, it's from trying to find a way around this.
    Doesn't matter how many times you dance around and claim a given, it's still a circular argument because the Supreme Court has not, as yet, ruled on whether or not SSM is a fundamental right as you claim. Until they do, based on the current law and as even noted in the DOMA ruling, the states determine who is married and who isn't under their individual laws. In DOMA, they just ruled that the federal government couldn't deny a State's interpretation of marriage.

    I appreciate that you don't want to accept that or that you don't want to accept that my opinion is based on the rule of law as it exists today, not as you or I may wish it to be. Doesn't change facts on the ground, however.

    I believe the Supreme Court will rule in favour of SSM. It is possible, however, that they will rule that one State's definition cannot infringe on the rights of other States to make their own determination, even if that may infringe on an individual's right of access to federal benefits.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Even more importantly is that the ruling stated the denying the benefits to SSM couples is a form of gender discrimination which served no legitimate governmental interest. That same line of thinking is why the court will invalidate any and all SSM bans.
    While I may agree with you, it's not a given. It could also be argued that one State's or several State's definition of marriage may bind the federal government and how it treats married people in that State, it may not bind the ability of another State to determine what marriage is within its borders.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #143
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Who's reason, yours?

    Since they dont have to and it's not a choice, then it doesnt stand to reason at all.

    Did you 'choose' to be straight?

    (And your link didnt even say it was a choice )
    These are identical twins... identical in every way... so yes... reason says that both would be oriented one way or another... that is why they funded studies of thousands of identical twins.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #144
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    1.)It doesn't speak well to his preparation for a run. When he decided to announce his exploratory status, he should have had basic responses to hot topical questions canned and ready to go. That means thinking about the outcome of said response BEFORE it came out of his mouth, because you are right. Presidential candidates are compelled to discuss their views on everything or be labeled a dodger. He can't just wave hand say "no comment". LOL
    I totally agree 100%!!!! im thinking because of his mental superiority at surgery he just thinks he can easily figure out the rest. He obviously doesnt have any people(advisers) yet or he ignores them.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I said in most states....that was opinion AND fact. I did qualify not all states as a couple had approved it.

    Obama's was still opinion.

    Carson's statement was not opinion, it was factually incorrect.
    Obama's was an opinion, and a very bad opinion. I'm just curious why he got a pass and Carson doesn't. Or I guess more importantly, I still don't understand why anyone cares what Carson thinks about the issue anyway.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Because there is a Circuit Court split on the matter -- and that's what they generally do when there is a split.
    Agreed - and my point was that it really isn't settled law because the Supreme Court has never opined on SSM. Until they do, it's open to interpretation at lower levels and at the State level. Thus, it's not a given that SSM will be ruled as a fundamental right as some are claiming, although I may agree with that interpretation.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Obama's was an opinion, and a very bad opinion. I'm just curious why he got a pass and Carson doesn't. Or I guess more importantly, I still don't understand why anyone cares what Carson thinks about the issue anyway.
    IMO the distinction is that Obama's was his opinion (and again...mostly accurate at that time) and Carson's was a statement of fact that was actually wrong. It wasnt his opinion, he actually believes or believed that men 'are turned gay' in prison.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    It's not that any state is trying to enforce a constitutional right by excluding same-sex partners in its marriage laws. States which continue to do that--as every state had always done until not many years ago--claim this exclusion from legal marriage does not raise any constitutional issue, any more than the exclusion of multiple partners, or ones who are younger than some specified age, or already married, or more closely related by blood than some specified degree. That's my view also.

    Family law has always been almost exclusively a state concern, and nothing in the Constitution prevents any state that chooses to from allowing homosexuals to marry each other. But people who want to advance the homosexual agenda are not content to leave it to the majority in each state to decide in their marriage laws. The democratic process is too slow for them, and they are intolerant of what they see as intolerance. These crusaders want to make everyone dance to their tune--and now.

    That is why they want the Supreme Court to concoct a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, just as people who wanted to advance the abortion agenda wanted--and got--the Court to concoct a constitutional right to abortion four decades ago. If that means making the Constitution say things most of us know very well it does not say, they could not care less. All they care about is imposing their will on everyone who does not share their glowing approval of homosexuality, and if that requires torturing the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment into something unrecognizable, if's fine by them. Most of these people don't much like the Constitution anyway.
    I would not have used the same language, but the effect is the same.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I dont know, states like S. Dakota, Kansas, and TX are still attempting to teach creationism in science classes to dispute evolution. Bet there's other states that would love to jump on that bandwagon....but hopefully not the majority of the people (bet it could be close tho!)
    I bet there are, but calling the theory of evolution "propaganda" will narrow a candidate's appeal. I think more so than just plainly saying he's a creationist. Even if a voter could over look or respect that he straight out just believes in creationism, labeling those who believe in evolution as propagandists or believing in propaganda, would make it more difficult to accept his position.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    IMO the distinction is that Obama's was his opinion (and again...mostly accurate at that time) and Carson's was a statement of fact that was actually wrong. It wasnt his opinion, he actually believes or believed that men 'are turned gay' in prison.
    I'm sure a lot of religious people believe that being gay is a choice. I'm sure they would also say what he did about prison and heterosexuals engaging in homosexual activity. That's his opinion. I think it's wrong, but Obama's was also wrong in 2008. And people still voted for him, knowing that as POTUS he opposed the idea of same sex marriage.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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