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Thread: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

  1. #91
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Excellent and thanks.

    However, if it's settled law, why is the Supreme Court taking up the issue rather than simply vacating any lower court ruling to the contrary?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. What Carson, and many others agree, says is that civil unions should be given, under legislation, the exact same benefits and privileges as marriage, without changing the historical definition of marriage. The gay community has move past that position to wanting/demanding SSM codified. I don't argue against their position, but it's not fair to claim it's a matter of equal rights when it's simply a matter of dispute over definition now.
    You are aware that civil unions were banned in the Constitutions of over a dozen states, right? Do you think gay rights proponents passed those bans? I am sick and tired of this revisionist history.

    Carson supported partial rights civil unions, not full rights civil unions.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's because marriage wasnt an option and wasnt being offered. For yrs previously however, gays were being thrown a bone with civil union proposals. (no pun intended)

    No gay people went around not desiring marriage and requesting CU's instead.
    I never said that.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    How is denying gay people the right to marry, which SCOTUS has said is a fundamental right, not a denial of equal rights?
    See post 91
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He believes that prison turns people gay.
    Yes, and Obama believed marriage was between a man and a woman until recently. Those are stupid statements based on personal belief and bias. It doesn't mean that the person behind them is stupid.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. What Carson, and many others agree, says is that civil unions should be given, under legislation, the exact same benefits and privileges as marriage, without changing the historical definition of marriage. The gay community has move past that position to wanting/demanding SSM codified. I don't argue against their position, but it's not fair to claim it's a matter of equal rights when it's simply a matter of dispute over definition now.
    If I am not mistaken someone proposed that here before Hedi Fry railroaded the law.

    I was told by a gay activist friend "it's too late" we would have accepted that a few years ago, now it's about equality.

    All movements of change, from ML King's civil rights movement to women's rights and abortion have their own momentum which often surpass the original intent. In this case that became a matter of defining what a "marriage" means both legally and socially.

    The concern on both sides should be that that definition process not migrate over to the spiritual definition......there are some fanatics just stupid enough to try to sue to force a church to marry them, and at least one judge clueless enough to grant them their wish
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Excellent and thanks.

    However, if it's settled law, why is the Supreme Court taking up the issue rather than simply vacating any lower court ruling to the contrary?
    DOMA. Until it was struck down, the issue was not considered a federal question.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I never said that.
    Well it's implied here:

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair. But the argument for many in the gay community and those who support them had always been that civil unions don't provide them with the same benefits and privileges under the law that a marriage certificate does. .

    It's not completely accurate, since some proposed CUs did offer all the same benefits and privileges...basically everything but the title 'marriage.'

    That's how 'separate but equal' is relevant to that 'workaround' to gays marrying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You are aware that civil unions were banned in the Constitutions of over a dozen states, right? Do you think gay rights proponents passed those bans? I am sick and tired of this revisionist history.

    Carson supported partial rights civil unions, not full rights civil unions.
    I'm not prepared to blame Dr. Carson for the actions of the dozen or more States you note above, unless you can prove he was active in those endeavours. I am, however, prepared to accept him at his word when he says he supports full and equal rights for civil unions without changing the historical definition of marriage.

    Perhaps you have some documentation that indicates Carson is lying in that regard.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Dr. Ben Carson Apologizes For Saying Being Gay Is a Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, and Obama believed marriage was between a man and a woman until recently. Those are stupid statements based on personal belief and bias. It doesn't mean that the person behind them is stupid.
    One is an opinion (Obama) and was accurate at the time in almost all the US, and one is ignorance in the face of fact (Carson).
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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