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Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson

Erod

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Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson - CNN.com

Washington (CNN)A Justice Department civil rights investigation has concluded that the Ferguson Police Department and the city's municipal court engaged in a "pattern and practice" of discrimination against African Americans, targeting them disproportionately for traffic stops, use of force, and jail sentences, according to a U.S. law enforcement official briefed on the investigation.


The probe is the result of an investigation ordered by Attorney General Eric Holder after the police shooting that killed Michael Brown last summer.

Among the findings, reviewed by CNN: from 2012 to 2014, 85% of people subject to vehicle stops by Ferguson police were African American; 90% of those who received citations were black; and 93% of people arrested were black. This while 67% of the Ferguson population is black.

Was there any chance whatsoever Holder would have accepted a conclusion that said anything differently?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

The only actionable items this report equates to are things the Ferguson Police Department / DA / and Local Criminal Courts are going to have to address one way or another. And addressing these items does not necessarily mean real changes, although some items might. Politically, this was about the only thing Holder was going to be able to accomplish in Ferguson.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

We needed the justice department to investigate in order to confirm the obvious!
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

"Among the findings, reviewed by CNN: from 2012 to 2014, 85% of people subject to vehicle stops by Ferguson police were African American; 90% of those who received citations were black; and 93% of people arrested were black. This while 67% of the Ferguson population is black."

Those numbers don't strike me as unreasonable. But those numbers cant be viewed in a vacuum. They should be compared and contrasted to arrest numbers in similar communities to see if they are indicative of anything.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

We needed the justice department to investigate in order to confirm the obvious!

What is obvious? That the majority of those arrested in a majority black community are black? Youre right. That is obvious.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

"Among the findings, reviewed by CNN: from 2012 to 2014, 85% of people subject to vehicle stops by Ferguson police were African American; 90% of those who received citations were black; and 93% of people arrested were black. This while 67% of the Ferguson population is black."

Those numbers don't strike me as unreasonable. But those numbers cant be viewed in a vacuum. They should be compared and contrasted to arrest numbers in similar communities to see if they are indicative of anything.

I completely agree with this statement, although at first glance those numbers seem to be indicative of racism to me. 33% of the population is not black yet those demographics account for just 7% of arrests. That does sound racist to me. But again, I agree, you need to look at the bigger picture to know one way or another.

The biggest question I have is what percentage of car owners/drivers in Ferguson are black. 67% of the population is black, but how many are over the age of 16 and how many are younger? And the bigger question is what percentage of arrests were for non-violent crimes? I think that arrests for non-violent crimes are far more often motivated by prejudice than arrests for violent crimes. If a black man and a white man assault the same woman, they'll both be headed to prison. But if a black man and a white man are both caught with a small amount of marijuana, that might not be the case.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

I completely agree with this statement, although at first glance those numbers seem to be indicative of racism to me. 33% of the population is not black yet those demographics account for just 7% of arrests. That does sound racist to me. But again, I agree, you need to look at the bigger picture to know one way or another.

The biggest question I have is what percentage of car owners/drivers in Ferguson are black. 67% of the population is black, but how many are over the age of 16 and how many are younger? And the bigger question is what percentage of arrests were for non-violent crimes? I think that arrests for non-violent crimes are far more often motivated by prejudice than arrests for violent crimes. If a black man and a white man assault the same woman, they'll both be headed to prison. But if a black man and a white man are both caught with a small amount of marijuana, that might not be the case.

We have no idea if there were extra cops in certain 'bad' neighborhoods [possibly mostly Black ones] that arrested, cited, or detained the majority of these reported cases.

And that's not surprising.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Well it is common knowledge that the blacks are terrible tippers -and- drivers.. ;)

Duh..


Tim-
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

I completely agree with this statement, although at first glance those numbers seem to be indicative of racism to me. 33% of the population is not black yet those demographics account for just 7% of arrests. That does sound racist to me. But again, I agree, you need to look at the bigger picture to know one way or another.

The biggest question I have is what percentage of car owners/drivers in Ferguson are black. 67% of the population is black, but how many are over the age of 16 and how many are younger? And the bigger question is what percentage of arrests were for non-violent crimes? I think that arrests for non-violent crimes are far more often motivated by prejudice than arrests for violent crimes. If a black man and a white man assault the same woman, they'll both be headed to prison. But if a black man and a white man are both caught with a small amount of marijuana, that might not be the case.

Why is that indicative of racism? If one group is committing a higher than proportionate level of crimes, wouldn't they have more interactions with the police?

Can you give me a specific example where a person committing a crime was overlooked by police based merely on race?

What evidence do you have that non-violent crimes are far more likely to be motivated by prejudice/racism?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

What is obvious? That the majority of those arrested in a majority black community are black? Youre right. That is obvious.

Typical, you haven't a clue what the justice departments report says.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Typical, you haven't a clue what the justice departments report says.

Fill me in. According to you the findings were obvious so it shouldn't be too hard for you
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Why is that indicative of racism? If one group is committing a higher than proportionate level of crimes, wouldn't they have more interactions with the police?

Can you give me a specific example where a person committing a crime was overlooked by police based merely on race?

What evidence do you have that non-violent crimes are far more likely to be motivated by prejudice/racism?

Yes, I can give you a specific example of that. It happened to a person named me. But you can't prove that I wasn't arrested solely because of my race. I could have been arrested a number of times (this was over a decade ago) but never was. If you don't think that me being middle class and white played a role in it, that's your choice, but I think you're ignoring the evidence. I grew up in Minneapolis, where there's this: racial disparity in low level arrests.

The Minneapolis Police Department’s own data, as reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Reporting, reveals that between 2004 and 2012, an African American individual was, on average:

11.5 times more likely to be arrested than a white individual for marijuana possession;
8.86 times more likely to be arrested than a white individual for disorderly conduct;
7.54 times more likely to be arrested than a white individual for vagrancy; and
16.39 times more likely to be arrested than a white juvenile for curfew/loitering

That's racist, right?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Yes, I can give you a specific example of that. It happened to a person named me. But you can't prove that I wasn't arrested solely because of my race. I could have been arrested a number of times (this was over a decade ago) but never was. If you don't think that me being middle class and white played a role in it, that's your choice, but I think you're ignoring the evidence. I grew up in Minneapolis, where there's this: racial disparity in low level arrests.



That's racist, right?

Im sorry but thats not good enough. Anecdotes aside, I'd need to see evidence, and your opinion isn't evidence.

And we can't just look at the number of arrests, or the percentage "more likely" on its own, we need to see evidence that race was a factor-can you provide that? I dont think you can.

Beyond that, different groups behave differently, I have no idea why you'd expect to see the same outcomes.
 
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Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Sometimes cops actually arrest the people who are committing the crimes?

And sometimes they don't!
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Fill me in. According to you the findings were obvious so it shouldn't be too hard for you

Did you read the Justice Departments report, or are you just being an ass because you hate black people??
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Im sorry but thats not good enough. Anecdotes aside, I'd need to see evidence, and your opinion isn't evidence.

And we can't just look at the number of arrests, or the percentage "more likely" on its own, we need to see evidence that race was a factor-can you provide that? I dont think you can.

Beyond that, different groups behave differently, I have no idea why you'd expect to see the same outcomes.

I think I did give you the evidence, you just choose not to accept it because you decided that your opinion is more important than evidence. If a black person is 11.5 times more likely than a white person to be arrested for the possession of marijuana (as they were between 2004 and 1014 according to the article I linked to) then the only reasonable conclusion is that race is a factor. Even if it isn't the only factor, I don't see any way around it.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

I think I did give you the evidence, you just choose not to accept it because you decided that your opinion is more important than evidence. If a black person is 11.5 times more likely than a white person to be arrested for the possession of marijuana (as they were between 2004 and 1014 according to the article I linked to) then the only reasonable conclusion is that race is a factor. Even if it isn't the only factor, I don't see any way around it.

How is race a factor? Im not disputing the disproportionality, but I dont follow you on the cause.
If I said that 100% of those of crimes happened while in orbit of the sun, does that mean the sun did it?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

I think I did give you the evidence, you just choose not to accept it because you decided that your opinion is more important than evidence. If a black person is 11.5 times more likely than a white person to be arrested for the possession of marijuana (as they were between 2004 and 1014 according to the article I linked to) then the only reasonable conclusion is that race is a factor. Even if it isn't the only factor, I don't see any way around it.

Is it? I could think of at least three factors that has nothing to do with race. 1: Local culture. 2: Lack of education. 3: Bad economy. All of which could contribute to people committing crimes either by themselves or all together or in some combination.

All those numbers mean is that blacks are more likely to be arrested. It doesn't say why they are more likely to be arrested. All you've done is made assumptions. And if Eric Holders "investigation" comes to the same conclusion just because of those numbers then it is obviously flawed. Whether on purpose or just plain stupidity though I have no idea.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

And sometimes they don't!

My guess is they'll have to look hard to find white criminals in Ferguson. If Ferguson is like any of the countless suburbs across the country that suffered from white flight over the last few decades, most of the whites who remain are from an older demographic--grandmas and grandpas who find comfort in homes they've lived in for decades and are reluctant to leave (personified in cinema by Walt Kowalski in Gran Torino). This isn't a prime demographic for criminals.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

They keep this **** up and cops are likely to stop patrolling black neighborhoods. Seriously. Why risk being hammered as racist? Just ignore the black parts of town and be done with it. Damn this report is high on the stupid....
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Is it? I could think of at least three factors that has nothing to do with race. 1: Local culture. 2: Lack of education. 3: Bad economy. All of which could contribute to people committing crimes either by themselves or all together or in some combination.

All those numbers mean is that blacks are more likely to be arrested. It doesn't say why they are more likely to be arrested. All you've done is made assumptions. And if Eric Holders "investigation" comes to the same conclusion just because of those numbers then it is obviously flawed. Whether on purpose or just plain stupidity though I have no idea.

What do those three criteria have to do with black people being arrested 11.5 times more likely than white people for marijuana use? The % of black individuals who use marijuana is roughly equal to the % of white individuals who use marijuana. So how would the economy reconcile how a racial demographic that comprises just 17.4% of the population is 11.5 times more likely to be arrested for a crime they commit at the same rate as the other racial demographics?

How is race a factor? Im not disputing the disproportionality, but I dont follow you on the cause.
If I said that 100% of those of crimes happened while in orbit of the sun, does that mean the sun did it?

Blacks make up 17.4% of the population in Minneapolis and Whites make up 70.2% Both groups use marijuana about equally. So there are 1/4 as many black marijuana users, but a black person is 11.5X more likely to be arrested for marijuana use. That's a pretty large discrepancy and I haven't heard you offer up any other explanation. I have evidence, you have "could be another explanation." If police don't target black people for non-violent crime arrests such as marijuana use, then surely statistics would support that, right? So cite some statistics!

Do you have any black friends? I'd suggest you ask them about this subject matter. Every black friend I've ever had has got stories about the police trying to find a reason to arrest them. I have stories about the police looking for reasons not to arrest me.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

The comments in any discussion relating to racial justice illustrate the need for racial justice.

Please try to read what the study actually says, not what you want it to say or what you wish it had said. It will help you sound less...frothy.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Well it is common knowledge that the blacks are terrible tippers -and- drivers.. ;)

Duh..


Tim-

dont know about ferguson

but i can tell around here cops stop cars for differing things

a couple of the big ones are tinting too heavy, or expired or missing inspection stickers

one of my employee's relative has a older honda, with really heavy tinting on the windows

he had been stopped numerous times, and ticketed like 5x over the course of months

never fixed it....and ignored the tickets

couple of weeks ago, cops stop him again......same thing

only this time, the unpaid tickets, and bench warrant appear as the cop runs the car and license

so he gets arrested, they impound car, and they find drugs in the car

and yes...the 20 year old is black

so, just another anecdotal situation that shows what....the cops are racist because they stop cars with heavy tinting?

or that you cant ignore the law?

maybe the statistics are slightly askew just because of situations similar to the one i described
 
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