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Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson

Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Mustachio said:
It's not really the case, though. Sometimes what you're saying is true but it doesn't explain the numbers. Here's a NY Times editorial discussing the issue of marijuana arrests.



The article also states that a black person is 10X more likely to go to prison for a drug charge. That has nothing to do with priors and I see no possible way that statistic can be explained any other way than race. Also, 9 in 10 prisoners in the United States have no history of violence. And a study done in New York showed that, among tens of thousands of people who were arrested for marijuana, 90% went on to never have a felony charge and only about 3% went on to commit a violent crime. That paints a picture of a pretty awful system to me.



Read what I just wrote above and also read the article and watch the movie. Don't I want cops where crime is? Have you read nothing I've said? Black and white people use marijuana at THE SAME rate or perhaps black people use marijuana at a LOWER rate yet are 3-30 times more likely to be arrested for it than a white person. You said "don't you want cops where the crime is?" Maybe I should be saying that to you, because white people are using marijuana at the same rate as black people but are 3-30 times less likely to be charged with marijuana possession. Logically, whites are getting away with the crimes that you believe they should be going to prison for. Why aren't you outraged that white people are getting away with using drugs? Instead, you're an apologist for a system that targets black people and imprisons them for non-violent crimes. Sometimes, people just disagree on a subject matter, but I'm pleased to know that all of the available evidence and statistics back what I'm saying and completely destroy everything you're saying.
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a lot can affect that raw statistic though.

Are blacks really being "targeted" or are they more involved with the drug trade?

You cannot draw conclusions from raw data.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Deuce said:
No, the politically correct thing to do is stop giving white people a "warning" while arresting black people as often as possible. The part you're missing is this: it's not that the police encounter 11.5 times more black people who possess marijuana. The issue is that upon encountering one white person and one black person who both possess marijuana, the black person is 11.5 times more likely to be arrested.

White teenager caught vandalizing something gets brought home to mom and dad. Black teenager caught vandalizing something gets brought to jail.

Arrest more white people and I bet you see penalties for marijuana possession drop quickly.
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Mustachio said:
I think the politically correct thing to do is consistently enforce laws without taking race into consideration. If you are going to arrest a black man for having a little bit of marijuana, then arrest a white person for having a little bit of marijuana. Better yet, don't arrest a black man for having a little bit of marijuana. Don't arrest black people at 11.5X the rate that you arrest white people for, and remember that this is what i'm talking about, NON-VIOLENT crimes. Filling prisons up with black men who have not committed violent crimes is incredibly stupid and only perpetuates the racial divide in America.
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Yes, the law should be equally applied. Right after the propensity for being involved in violent crime reaches the same level between the two populations.

It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau. And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.

Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six times higher.

. . .
Alternative statistics from the FBI are more up to date but include many crimes where the killer’s race is not recorded. These numbers tell a similar story.
In 2013, the FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 per cent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. The offender’s race was “unknown” in 29.1 per cent of cases.
What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.
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FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

So 12 % - 13% of the population are committing between 30% -40% of the murders. Now THAT is disproportionate by anyone's measure.

Time: “Young Black Men Murder 14 Times More than Young White Men” | FrontPage Magazine

400px-USA_2009._Percent_of_adult_males_incarcerated_by_race_and_ethnicity.png
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Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Far too many blacks being incarcerated? Got a great idea. Why not let black gang murderers off with a warning? I'm sure that'd reduce that population.

The reality here is that it goes both ways. The respect that the police receive, or don't, is the same respect that they return. How about curbing various people's disrespect of the law and of the police? Could only help matters, don't you think?
 
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Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

eohrnberger said:
Yes, the law should be equally applied. Right after the propensity for being involved in violent crime reaches the same level between the two populations.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

So 12 % - 13% of the population are committing between 30% -40% of the murders. Now THAT is disproportionate by anyone's measure.

Time: “Young Black Men Murder 14 Times More than Young White Men” | FrontPage Magazine

Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Far too many blacks being incarcerated? Got a great idea. Why not let black gang murderers off with a warning? I'm sure that'd reduce that population.

The reality here is that it goes both ways. The respect that the police receive, or don't, is the same respect that they return. How about curbing various people's disrespect of the law and of the police? Could only help matters, don't you think?
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Once again "progressives" are only looking at the surface, with a quick solution without reasoning through the result of simply not arresting them.

Now everyone remain calm, but this gets rather pink. You have to solve the source of the crime. Why? Back to the old abandoned drawing board of an earlier generation who believed understanding the problem would lead to a solution. Enter the stoopidest progressive to ever wear a Stetson Lyndon Baines Bonehead and no, we don't need to understand the ****ing problem, throw money at it!

Then enter Nixon who said we need a war on drugs, not a war on poverty and so now you have neither.

Why do blacks commit the largest percentage of the crime? Find out even a small percentage of that answer and you will have progress....
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Fearandloathing said:
Once again "progressives" are only looking at the surface, with a quick solution without reasoning through the result of simply not arresting them.

Now everyone remain calm, but this gets rather pink. You have to solve the source of the crime. Why? Back to the old abandoned drawing board of an earlier generation who believed understanding the problem would lead to a solution. Enter the stoopidest progressive to ever wear a Stetson Lyndon Baines Bonehead and no, we don't need to understand the ****ing problem, throw money at it!

Then enter Nixon who said we need a war on drugs, not a war on poverty and so now you have neither.

Why do blacks commit the largest percentage of the crime? Find out even a small percentage of that answer and you will have progress....
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I think there's a disconnect between the morals, ethics, and value system that many hold, and the ones that society in general holds, and in this conflict, the individual will eventually lose, and, if criminal in the nature of offenses, will end up incarcerated.

Should society commonize, more or less, on the same, or closely similar morals, ethics, and value system, the disconnect is eliminated, the conflict doesn't occur with any significance, and the likelihood of incarceration fo the individual is significantly decreased.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

eohrnberger said:
I think there's a disconnect between the morals, ethics, and value system that many hold, and the ones that society in general holds, and in this conflict, the individual will eventually lose, and, if criminal in the nature of offenses, will end up incarcerated.

Should society commonize, more or less, on the same, or closely similar morals, ethics, and value system, the disconnect is eliminated, the conflict doesn't occur with any significance, and the likelihood of incarceration fo the individual is significantly decreased.
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The disconnect as it occurs here, comes from what? Genetics? Or is it environment, in the raising and nurturing of a child. One thing I notice through the Caribbean, Africa and so forth is a propensity for women to birth children from different fathers, few of whom stick around to raise what they have sewn. How does that contribute to that disconnect? While it is common in much of Africa to have a brother who is also a cousin, it is a source of shame in our culture.

All of these things affect the socio-economic aspects of the race in ways that job programs, AA, and any race based program can't begin to influence...mere band aids, if that, to a cancer too long ignored.

I doubt that the same numbers would apply here. We have few blacks, but our crime comes predominantly from First Nations, for the same reasons it seems. So I dismiss genetics, but aim at the social mileaux in which they are being raised. Something we conveniently ignore because we have all these affirmative action programs we are told work.....

They don't
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Fearandloathing said:
The disconnect as it occurs here, comes from what? Genetics? Or is it environment, in the raising and nurturing of a child. One thing I notice through the Caribbean, Africa and so forth is a propensity for women to birth children from different fathers, few of whom stick around to raise what they have sewn. How does that contribute to that disconnect? While it is common in much of Africa to have a brother who is also a cousin, it is a source of shame in our culture.

All of these things affect the socio-economic aspects of the race in ways that job programs, AA, and any race based program can't begin to influence...mere band aids, if that, to a cancer too long ignored.

I doubt that the same numbers would apply here. We have few blacks, but our crime comes predominantly from First Nations, for the same reasons it seems. So I dismiss genetics, but aim at the social mileaux in which they are being raised. Something we conveniently ignore because we have all these affirmative action programs we are told work.....

They don't
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No, most certainly not genetics, nor race. Would appear to be logical that the 'war on poverty' and all the affirmative action programs have the exactly the unintended consequences as desired. But that a system, which grows by accretion and excess and ill-considered decisions eventually works counter to it's original intended purpose is really no great revelation.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

US Conservative said:
Show me the policies, across the patchwork of cities and towns in the US that say to target someone based on race.
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Wow, they have to literally write a policy that says "be racist" before you see it.

Amazing.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Deuce said:
Wow, they have to literally write a policy that says "be racist" before you see it.

Amazing.
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Your problem is that you are asking me to assume facts not in evidence. Maybe thats good enough for the left, but not me.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Fearandloathing said:
Once again "progressives" are only looking at the surface, with a quick solution without reasoning through the result of simply not arresting them.

Now everyone remain calm, but this gets rather pink. You have to solve the source of the crime. Why? Back to the old abandoned drawing board of an earlier generation who believed understanding the problem would lead to a solution. Enter the stoopidest progressive to ever wear a Stetson Lyndon Baines Bonehead and no, we don't need to understand the ****ing problem, throw money at it!

Then enter Nixon who said we need a war on drugs, not a war on poverty and so now you have neither.

Why do blacks commit the largest percentage of the crime? Find out even a small percentage of that answer and you will have progress....
Click to expand...

The left isn't looking for answers, they are looking for accusations of racism to further their politics. Thats all that matters.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Fearandloathing said:
The disconnect as it occurs here, comes from what? Genetics? Or is it environment, in the raising and nurturing of a child. One thing I notice through the Caribbean, Africa and so forth is a propensity for women to birth children from different fathers, few of whom stick around to raise what they have sewn. How does that contribute to that disconnect? While it is common in much of Africa to have a brother who is also a cousin, it is a source of shame in our culture.

All of these things affect the socio-economic aspects of the race in ways that job programs, AA, and any race based program can't begin to influence...mere band aids, if that, to a cancer too long ignored.

I doubt that the same numbers would apply here. We have few blacks, but our crime comes predominantly from First Nations, for the same reasons it seems. So I dismiss genetics, but aim at the social mileaux in which they are being raised. Something we conveniently ignore because we have all these affirmative action programs we are told work.....

They don't
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I agree but we have a POTUS who can't even call terrorists by their name, you think he's going to address any of this?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

US Conservative said:
Your problem is that you are asking me to assume facts not in evidence. Maybe thats good enough for the left, but not me.
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No, nobody is asking that of you. You've been shown plenty of facts. It's your interpretation that is the problem. You are incapable of seeing racist operations without a literal black and white, written racist policy. It was your own words. If that's your standard, there's nothing else to say. This was never about facts, for you.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Deuce said:
No, nobody is asking that of you. You've been shown plenty of facts. It's your interpretation that is the problem. You are incapable of seeing racist operations without a literal black and white, written racist policy. It was your own words. If that's your standard, there's nothing else to say. This was never about facts, for you.
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Since you appear so sure of how ones interpretation should be I will ask you-Asians have a much lower crime rate than even whites. Is this too evidence of racism? Are all of the various ethnicities of cops and lawyers and judges and jurors across the nation colluding to help asians and stick it to whitey?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

MrVicchio said:
They keep this **** up and cops are likely to stop patrolling black neighborhoods. Seriously. Why risk being hammered as racist? Just ignore the black parts of town and be done with it. Damn this report is high on the stupid....
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Yes... those Ferguson cops are such victims. Poor guys. :lol:
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

US Conservative said:
For the moment, lets say its true that blacks and whites have parity on marijuana use ( I haven't seen any study to suggest for or against that). You can't get from there to the fact that blacks are more likely to be arrested for marijuana use without looking at the factors in between. Could they have been more likely to be out in public? Driving erratically? Caught for another crime and then marijuana was found? Less likely to have a legal reason to be using medical marijuana? More likely to commit other crimes that would lead cops to them? More gang activity? (btw there are stats for these)

Do you understand what Im saying? You simply can't make the jump from one to the other without knowing these things.
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Here's those stats you haven't seen before.

The black/white marijuana arrest gap, in nine charts - The Washington Post
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

US Conservative said:
Since you appear so sure of how ones interpretation should be I will ask you-Asians have a much lower crime rate than even whites. Is this too evidence of racism? Are all of the various ethnicities of cops and lawyers and judges and jurors across the nation colluding to help asians and stick it to whitey?
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Deflection. You asked for literal written policy to target based on race. There is no standard that would convince you. Nothing else to discuss.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

MrVicchio said:
They keep this **** up and cops are likely to stop patrolling black neighborhoods. Seriously. Why risk being hammered as racist? Just ignore the black parts of town and be done with it. Damn this report is high on the stupid....
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This happened in Cincinnati. In 2001 or so, an unarmed black mope named Timothy Thomas was wanted for 14 minor violations. White CPD officer Steven Roach was told TT had 14 warrants rather than minor capiases and gave chase. in a dark alley, in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the USA, Roach cornered Thomas who-like many young black males-didn't believe in belts and his pants were about at his knees. TT grabbed to pull up his sagging pants and Roach shot him fatally, thinking TT was grabbing a weapon. Blacks rioted and various criminal apologists and anti cop black racists damned the CPD. So the Police stopped vigorous law enforcement efforts in black areas of Cincinnati. Over the next 100 weeks or so-there were over 110 murders in Cincinnati, every one of them involved blacks killing blacks-almost all in areas that the CPD treated to a hands off approach.. Cincinnati Proper is 43% black yet in that two year period, all the murders involved blacks
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Deuce said:
Deflection. You asked for literal written policy to target based on race. There is no standard that would convince you. Nothing else to discuss.
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You can't just type "deflection" :doh You can't show me any evidence. This isn't the salem witch trials. And if its acceptable for you to cite raw facts that lead to a false inference-its ok for me to show that other races have a lower arrest/conviction rate than whites.
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

US Conservative said:
For the moment, lets say its true that blacks and whites have parity on marijuana use ( I haven't seen any study to suggest for or against that). You can't get from there to the fact that blacks are more likely to be arrested for marijuana use without looking at the factors in between. Could they have been more likely to be out in public? Driving erratically? Caught for another crime and then marijuana was found? Less likely to have a legal reason to be using medical marijuana? More likely to commit other crimes that would lead cops to them? More gang activity? (btw there are stats for these)

Do you understand what Im saying? You simply can't make the jump from one to the other without knowing these things.
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Ok, since you have never seen this:

Marijuana use by race:

MJ use black v white.jpg

Marijuana prosecutions by race:

MJ arrest rates.jpg

Do you see a disconnect in the numbers? Virtually anyone with any sense does.

... then there is the well documented racial discrimination in the application of the death penalty.

Research exposes racial discrimination in America's death penalty capital | World news | The Guardian
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/616589-buck-paternoster-report.html

Racial bias in policing is also nothing new.

Racial Bias in Policing | Russell Sage Foundation
Race, Class, and Perceptions of Discrimination by the Police

...and cops are far more likely to pull the trigger on a black target than a white one...

Police Chief Magazine - View Article
Michael Brown Shooting: Studies Show Racial Bias in Police Decisions | The New Republic
http://defiant.ssc.uwo.ca/undergraduate/psych2720/the police officer's dilemma.pdf

Racism is alive and well in America. It is alive and well in most of its institutions, including the police. Racial bias amongst various suburban St Louis police departments was also widely known before any of us ever heard of Ferguson. This, as well as all of the other issues I have documents, is why there was a rush to judgement to think the Ferguson shooting had racial overtones. Although we will never know the answer to that, the DoJ report tells us the environment was ripe for such a thing.

I am sorry, you and many of the other posters on this board refuse to look at facts and even consider the obvious conclusion. Instead, you come up with the most absurd explanations for these facts because you don't want to admit the obvious conclusion (much less consider it). You offer up some the the most absurd explanations for this trends which reminds most rational thinkers of "...officer, I swear, the tree came out of no where and jumped in front of my care...." And, once again, your posts are so obviously devoid of any rational argument or third-party support because of the need to cling to your erroneous impressions.



Many of us know all too well ".... what you are saying..." Some of us, however, don't think you do.
 
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Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/05/opinion/charles-blow-the-feds-vs-ferguson.html?_r=1

“African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search.”
Click to expand...
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

upsideguy said:
Ok, since you have never seen this:

Marijuana use by race:

View attachment 67181340

Marijuana prosecutions by race:

View attachment 67181341

Do you see a disconnect in the numbers? Virtually anyone with any sense does.

... then there is the well documented racial discrimination in the application of the death penalty.

Research exposes racial discrimination in America's death penalty capital | World news | The Guardian
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/616589-buck-paternoster-report.html

Racial bias in policing is also nothing new.

Racial Bias in Policing | Russell Sage Foundation
Race, Class, and Perceptions of Discrimination by the Police

...and cops are far more likely to pull the trigger on a black target than a white one...

Police Chief Magazine - View Article
Michael Brown Shooting: Studies Show Racial Bias in Police Decisions | The New Republic
http://defiant.ssc.uwo.ca/undergraduate/psych2720/the police officer's dilemma.pdf

Racism is alive and well in America. It is alive and well in most of its institutions, including the police. Racial bias amongst various suburban St Louis police departments was also widely known before any of us ever heard of Ferguson. This, as well as all of the other issues I have documents, is why there was a rush to judgement to think the Ferguson shooting had racial overtones. Although we will never know the answer to that, the DoJ report tells us the environment was ripe for such a thing.

I am sorry, you and many of the other posters on this board refuse to look at facts and even consider the obvious conclusion. Instead, you come up with the most absurd explanations for these facts because you don't want to admit the obvious conclusion (much less consider it). You offer up some the the most absurd explanations for this trends which reminds most rational thinkers of "...officer, I swear, the tree came out of no where and jumped in front of my care...." And, once again, your posts are so obviously devoid of any rational argument or third-party support because of the need to cling to your erroneous impressions.



Many of us know all too well ".... what you are saying..." Some of us, however, don't think you do.
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And youve just told me you didn't read the thread, he already posted a link. You though, made the same leap he did. You can't simply look at use, and then arrests and say that a discrepancy is evidence of racism. You aren't accounting for the factors in between.

If you can, Id love to see your evidence of that. And I will ask you another question-asians have a lower arrest rate than whites-is that evidence of racism?
 
Re: Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Fergu

Erod said:
Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson - CNN.com



Was there any chance whatsoever Holder would have accepted a conclusion that said anything differently?
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Was there any chance whatsoever that the Ferguson Police Department did not engage in a pattern of discrimination? I just think that it is unfortunate that they had to spend money to discover something so obvious.
 
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