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Thread: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    If Congress believed it to be applicable then it wouldn't have required an amendment.
    Sometimes amendments are added to clarify, the judiciary decides what's applicable, not the legislature.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sometimes amendments are added to clarify, the judiciary decides what's applicable, not the legislature.
    You're not going to string Hillary up by trying to create a grey area.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    You're not going to string Hillary up by trying to create a grey area.
    I'm not interested in stringing her up.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    If Congress believed it to be applicable then it wouldn't have required an amendment.
    Wrong, Congress amends laws all the time to increase clarity and/or scope of a code. But, in this case, the federal code effective as far back as 1995, and certainty by October of 2009 is more than sufficient to demonstrate that Hillary Clinton violated the law, and is subject to criminal prosecution. Here are the key federal codes effective in 2009 or before:

    44 US Code Section 3101 - Records Management by Agency Heads; general duties

    The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency and designed to furnish the information necessary to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities.


    And this is the State Department’s own treatment of the question from 1995:

    Another important modern improvement is the ease of communication now afforded to the Department world-wide through the use of E-mail. . . . All employees must be aware that some of the variety of the messages being exchanged on E-mail are important to the Department and must be preserved; such messages are considered Federal records under the law. (5 FAM [Foreign Affairs Manual] 443.1)

    And Federal Code Specifically Addresses Electronic Record-Keeping:

    §1236.20 What are appropriate recordkeeping systems for electronic records?

    ...(b) Electronic recordkeeping. Recordkeeping functionality may be built into the electronic information system or records can be transferred to an electronic recordkeeping repository, such as a DoD-5015.2 STD-certified product. The following functionalities are necessary for electronic recordkeeping:

    ...(2) Capture records. Import records from other sources, manually enter records into the system, or link records to other systems.

    ...(4) Maintain records security. Prevent the unauthorized access, modification, or deletion of declared records, and ensure that appropriate audit trails are in place to track use of the records.
    ...
    (6) Preserve records. Ensure that all records in the system are retrievable and usable for as long as needed to conduct agency business and to meet NARA-approved dispositions. Agencies must develop procedures to enable the migration of records and their associated metadata to new storage media or formats in order to avoid loss due to media decay or technology obsolescence.
    ...


    §1236.22 What are the additional requirements for managing electronic mail records?

    ...

    (b) Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.
    ...

    (1) Agencies must not use an electronic mail system to store the recordkeeping copy of electronic mail messages identified as Federal records unless that system has all of the features specified in §1236.20(b) of this part.

    (2) If the electronic mail system is not designed to be a recordkeeping system, agencies must instruct staff on how to copy Federal records from the electronic mail system to a recordkeeping system...[/I].

    §1236.24 What are the additional requirements for managing unstructured electronic records?

    (a) Agencies that manage unstructured electronic records electronically must ensure that the records are filed in a recordkeeping system that meets the requirements in §1236.10, except that transitory e-mail may be managed in accordance with §1236.22(c).

    The Archivist interpreted the Federal Records Act to apply to e-mail records and even in 1995 code provided that “[a]gencies with access to external electronic mail systems shall ensure that federal records sent or received on these systems are preserved in the appropriate recordkeeping system . . .” So as early as 1995, all federal agencies were required to preserve official e-mails, including those created or maintained on “external electronic mail systems.”

    To Be Continued...
    Last edited by maxparrish; 03-10-15 at 01:31 AM.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    THEREFORE, it must be concluded that:

    As the head of a Federal agency Hillary Clinton ignored her general duties of record-keeping. (Section 3101)

    As head of the agency she ignored the numerous requirements for an appropriate recordkeeping system for state department records that she generated (and received), instead using her own 'home-brewed' system as the keeper of all of her State Department records. (Section 1236.20)

    As head of the agency she ignored the additional requirements for managing her e-mail records, in particular by not preserving the record in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.(1236.22 (b))

    And under 18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation

    (a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    (b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

    VERDICT:

    Hillary Clinton willfully and unlawfully concealed, and attempted to conceal, her her State Department records by intentionally not using a State Department email address and routing government records through a private email server. In addition, she intentionally did not follow procedure to provide copies of private emails to the State Department while she was head of the agency.

    Ms. Clinton's conspiracy to hide State Department records requires her arrest and trial. Upon conviction she should spend not less than 1 year in prison, and barred from future office.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    That's Right Max.....willingly, and knowingly knowing exactly what she was doing.

    Despite being an incompetent Manager which includes all of her people and not keeping accurate records.




    State Dept. misplaced $6B under Hillary Clinton: IG report.....

    The State Department misplaced and lost some $6 billion due to the improper filing of contracts during the past six years, mainly during the tenure of former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, according to a newly released Inspector General report. The $6 billion in unaccounted funds poses a “significant financial risk and demonstrates a lack of internal control over the Department’s contract actions,” according to the report.

    The report centered on State Department contracts worth “more than $6 billion in which contract files were incomplete or could not be located at all,” according to the alert.“The failure to maintain contract files adequately creates significant financial risk and demonstrates a lack of internal control over the Department’s contract actions,” the alert states.

    The situation “creates conditions conducive to fraud, as corrupt individuals may attempt to conceal evidence of illicit behavior by omitting key documents from the contract file,” the report concluded. The State Department’s inability to properly file its paperwork is causing most of the losses, according to the report.....snip~

    State Dept. misplaced $6B under Hillary Clinton: IG report - Washington Times

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    THEREFORE, it must be concluded that:

    As the head of a Federal agency Hillary Clinton ignored her general duties of record-keeping. (Section 3101)

    As head of the agency she ignored the numerous requirements for an appropriate recordkeeping system for state department records that she generated (and received), instead using her own 'home-brewed' system as the keeper of all of her State Department records. (Section 1236.20)

    As head of the agency she ignored the additional requirements for managing her e-mail records, in particular by not preserving the record in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.(1236.22 (b))

    And under 18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation

    (a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    (b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

    VERDICT:

    Hillary Clinton willfully and unlawfully concealed, and attempted to conceal, her her State Department records by intentionally not using a State Department email address and routing government records through a private email server. In addition, she intentionally did not follow procedure to provide copies of private emails to the State Department while she was head of the agency.

    Ms. Clinton's conspiracy to hide State Department records requires her arrest and trial. Upon conviction she should spend not less than 1 year in prison, and barred from future office.
    LOL, I guess her trial can start right after they convict and jail Powell for the same offense, only he's turned over ZERO of his emails, so his prosecution should be quick and easy. And then we can move on to the Bush WH which routinely used RNC servers, and the administrators there expertly and permanently deleted millions of WH emails that weren't ever recovered and to my knowledge none of which were turned over to the archivist. So after we get a couple dozen or more Bush era people jailed, we can start with Obama appointees.

    This is the problem many people have explained about the Clintons. There really IS an issue here, but the problem is her detractors blow up any problem into a jailable, or impeachable offense (whatever remedy suits them at the moment) and so her defenders have to pretend that there isn't any problem at all. So instead of discussing the actual issues, we've got most of the country sitting on pretty untenable positions JAIL!@!!! or She's INNOCENT!!! CONSPIRACY!!!

    The truth is she probably didn't break any law by using a private email account, and she did turn over her records (at least no one has proved she didn't) satisfying the record keeping laws, which have no time frame specified. And she didn't do anything more or less illegal than her predecessors in her position. But she didn't follow regulations of her own department, and seems to have clearly decided on a personal account to have "control" over which emails get released.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The portion of the Federal Records Act that is pertinent to this discussion didn't exist until long after Hillary left. It should also be noted that the DOD has been in consistent violation of the Federal Records Act for decades with 0 repercussions. If no one goes to jail for signing off on and submitting deliberately falsified DOD financial records to the U.S. Treasury for decades then you can forget about punishing Hillary Clinton for doing something that wasn't even unlawful. Besides, you aren't interested in accountability; you're interested in targeting Hillary Clinton with nonsense to see what sticks. Of course I could be wrong and you could demand that prior Secretaries of State, Secretaries of Defense, and other cabinet officials be dragged into the public square for a flogging over e-mail accounts, but I doubt it.
    Name the past SoS that setup a private email server for the purpose of circumventing FOIA and Oversight Committee request.

    She's making this worse by lying her way through press conferences and treating the American people like idiots.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Name the past SoS that setup a private email server for the purpose of circumventing FOIA and Oversight Committee request.

    She's making this worse by lying her way through press conferences and treating the American people like idiots.
    Powell. And he's turned over zero of his private emails.

    And roughly the entire WH staff under Bush used private email servers to get around FOIA requests. Millions of emails permanently deleted... IOKIYAR apparently. Or maybe not OK, just not even acknowledged.

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    Re: Clinton had no official State Dept. email address

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Powell. And he's turned over zero of his private emails.

    And roughly the entire WH staff under Bush used private email servers to get around FOIA requests. Millions of emails permanently deleted... IOKIYAR apparently. Or maybe not OK, just not even acknowledged.
    Powell set up a private email server for the purpose of circumventing FOIA and Oversight committee request and then went on to lie about it ?

    So 100 percent of his Emails went through a private email server ?

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