Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 137

Thread: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

  1. #121
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, you don't have the letter of the law. What you have is one cherry picked phrase from a 3000 page document that refers to "an exchange established by the state" and its' meaning is far from clear.
    Well, I felt it safe to "cherry pick" the section of the law discussing subsidies to discuss the law as it pertains to subsidies. Do you propose another section of the law that better pertains to the subject of subsidies that the section on subsidies?


    The absence of the reference to sec 1321 is of no sigificance if the phrase "established by the state" includes federally facilitated exchanges, which it does. Such a reference would be redundant.
    But it doesn't pertain to the Federal exchanges because they weren't established by the state.


    I don't see how requiring FFE's to report info that the govt has no use for (because it already knows the info) can be said to serve the cause of simplicity.
    Otherwise they would have had to write the legislation twice.


    As I explained earlier, it includes FFE's
    No it doesn't and you have not proved it does.

    Actually, that is the worst time to believe a liar.
    Nope. When the liar is cornered and he knows he's in trouble is when he is more likely to lie.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  2. #122
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong again

    Enforcement of the individual mandate does not require info about subsidies, just enrollement.
    That isn't what I said. The section in question is a catchall reporting requirement for all exchanges. The IRS would need the enrollment data from Federal Exchanges in order to enforce the mandate.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  3. #123
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,759

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Baucus and Ensign were discussing the difference between Ensign's desired torte reform addendum and the State Exchanges. When Baucus said that the Federal government didn't have the standing to impose Ensign's reform he asked what gives the Federal Government authority to impose the Exchange regulation on the States
    The discussion was about whether that committee had jurisdiction not whether the Federal Government did. And his words were:

    "There are conditions to participate in the Exchange. An exchange is essentially is tax credits. Taxes are the jurisdiction of this committee."

    and Baucus said that it was the subsidies that allowed them to push the states to create exchanges. It obviously wouldn't be much of a carrot if the intent was to give subsidies to all states anyway.
    That just wasn't in the exchange you cited.

  4. #124
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That is as dishonest a claim as when you said that Baucus said that FFE's could not give out subsidies.

    Which explains why you still have not quoted Baucus.
    It's accurate. The video begins with Ensign's challenge to Baucus on the double standard that torte reform was not the jurisdiction of the committee and when challenged on what gave the committee the jurisdiction to force the states to make other changes to state law like creating exchanges Baucus said that the State created exchanges were for the tax credits.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #125
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The discussion was about whether that committee had jurisdiction not whether the Federal Government did. And his words were:

    "There are conditions to participate in the Exchange. An exchange is essentially is tax credits. Taxes are the jurisdiction of this committee."

    That just wasn't in the exchange you cited.
    That is what he said. The discussion was whether the committee has jurisdiction to force changes on the states and Baucus stated that the subsidies gave them the jurisdiction to change state law and demand the exchanges.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  6. #126
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,759

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That is what he said. The discussion was whether the committee has jurisdiction to force changes on the states and Baucus stated that the subsidies gave them the jurisdiction to change state law and demand the exchanges.
    He said there are "conditions to participate in the exchanges." He just does not assert that the credits depend on whether the state or the Feds on behalf of the state establishes those exchanges.

    Senator Hatch and the conservative attorneys, on the other hand, clearly indicated that the credits would flow without regard to whether the state or Feds established the exchanges, contra not-a-Congressman-Gruber.

  7. #127
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, I felt it safe to "cherry pick" the section of the law discussing subsidies to discuss the law as it pertains to subsidies. Do you propose another section of the law that better pertains to the subject of subsidies that the section on subsidies?
    No, you cherry picked from only one section (out of many) that refers to subsidies while ignoring the many other sections that refer to subsidies.

    But it doesn't pertain to the Federal exchanges because they weren't established by the state.
    Yes, they were. The sections you ignore in order to cherry pick make it clear that they were established by the states



    Otherwise they would have had to write the legislation twice.
    No they wouldn't.

    No it doesn't and you have not proved it does.
    Yes I have

    Nope. When the liar is cornered and he knows he's in trouble is when he is more likely to lie.
    because his words will matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #128
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    That isn't what I said. The section in question is a catchall reporting requirement for all exchanges. The IRS would need the enrollment data from Federal Exchanges in order to enforce the mandate.
    But they don't need info about subsidies in order to enforce the individual mandate
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #129
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's accurate. The video begins with Ensign's challenge to Baucus on the double standard that torte reform was not the jurisdiction of the committee and when challenged on what gave the committee the jurisdiction to force the states to make other changes to state law like creating exchanges Baucus said that the State created exchanges were for the tax credits.
    You are lying. He did not say "State created exchanges were for the tax credits"

    What he said was "An exchange essentially is tax credits"

    Once again you have demonstrated why you won't quote what he actually said.
    Last edited by sangha; 03-04-15 at 08:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #130
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: In Four-Word Phrase, Challenger Spied Health Care Laws Vulnerability

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, you cherry picked from only one section (out of many) that refers to subsidies while ignoring the many other sections that refer to subsidies.

    Yes, they were. The sections you ignore in order to cherry pick make it clear that they were established by the states[/QUOTE]

    I "cherry picked" the legislation that deals with who gets subsidies because the question at hand is who gets subsidies. It just so happens that the text is very clear that state exchanges established under 1311 (by the state) are the exchanges that are eligible for subsidies. In the same way that in a discussion about Medicaid Expansion I would "cherry pick" the legislation pertaining to Medicaid expansion.

    Your insistence that "by the DHHS" is synonymous with "by the state" isn't compelling. My car was made by me... and by "me" I mean "Ford" because it's the same thing, apparently.

    No they wouldn't.
    Of course they would. The same reason they had to split the federal exchanges and the state exchanges into separate sections. But hey, if you think that their is no reason for them to split the reporting legislation then that only strengthens the argument that the intent of the government was to split the state and federal exchanges because they went to the to write two separate pieces of legislation when one would have been sufficient if the intent was to make them the same.

    Yes I have
    No, you haven't. You have provided the Federal Government's argument to the SCOTUS which isn't proof.

    because his words will matter.
    Which is why a liar lies. If you believe that a liar is less likely to lie when they perceive they have something to gain then I really don't know how to fix that for you. How many bridges do you own?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •