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Thread: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishme

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Thoughts are?
    Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

    Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

    Which would you choose?
    Am I guilty?

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Thoughts are?
    Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

    Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

    Which would you choose?
    Let them arrest me, and sue for false arrest.
    Free Trade Doesn't Work: What Should Replace It and Why,
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    https://www.numbersusa.org/

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadowlark View Post
    I would request to see the video evidence of the so called 'shoplifting' while I looking for my lawyers phone number -

    If they couldn't produce video evidence which of course would show nothing since I don't shoplift and would not let me walk out freely at that point, hit send on my phone and calling my lawyer. Second I would call the police myself.
    Indeed. If I am being accosted and threatened unrightfully, I think I am very emotionally damaged, and will be receiving a nice fat piece of compensation from Bloomingdales' for my troubles.

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm not going to some room. If he wants to call the cops he is more than able to do so and when he does I'm suing the store.
    Actually, I've always wondered about the legality of a store's security person being able to take you to a little back room.

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Actually, I've always wondered about the legality of a store's security person being able to take you to a little back room.
    They don't even need to do it. They know what I look like, they have a phone and if I stole something they have video proof. I see no reason I should go with them. If they want to kidnap some dude they can pick someone else.

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They don't even need to do it. They know what I look like, they have a phone and if I stole something they have video proof. I see no reason I should go with them.
    According to a thing some guy on the internet said, they can make a citizen's arrest and detain you, but cannot search you.

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Actually, I've always wondered about the legality of a store's security person being able to take you to a little back room.
    Allow me to give you some insights from first hand experience. As an inventory associate I often have to cover the asset protection specialist (usually the guy who stands up at the front) when he goes on break or for some other reason is unavailable. In our training videos, if we witness shoplifting, we are to confront the customer before they attempt to exit the store and apprehend them ("apprehend" not in a legal sense but just having a firm physical grip on the individual), and then lead them to the back room (usually the asset protection office where all the surveillance and video equipment is). I would say the vast majority of the time people choose to comply - if they don't, we try to prevent them from leaving the store until we can get the police involved.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 02-28-15 at 12:59 PM.
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    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Thoughts are?
    Pay us or we’ll call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of punishment

    Imagine you’re browsing at Bloomingdale’s when a security guard taps you on the shoulder and accuses you of shoplifting. He takes you to a private room, sits you down, and runs your name through a database to see if you have any outstanding warrants. Then he tells you that you have two options. The first involves him calling the police, who might arrest you and take you to jail. The second allows you to walk out of the store immediately, no questions asked—right after you sign an admission of guilt and agree to pay $320 to take an online course designed to make you never want to steal again.

    Which would you choose?
    The article did a good job laying out the problem. Assuming I was actually innocent, it's still not a no-brainer to fight the charge. If the police did file charges, it would cost far more than the $320 to fight it assuming the risk of conviction was zero. You'd burn through that with the first phone call to a decent attorney. The possibility of $5,000 or $10,000 in attorney fees wouldn't bankrupt me so I could afford the risk and not suffer any change in lifestyle, but that's not true if you're poor.

    It all depends on whether the retailers are operating in good faith. If they are, and the article offered no evidence they were making spurious allegations, then there probably is little downside, and lots of petty criminals avoid a very damaging hit on their record for no more than a speeding ticket in lots of jurisdictions.

    FWIW, the traffic court in my area poses the same risks - if you're ticketed, it really doesn't pay to fight the ticket for 99% or so. My last one was total BS, but the fine was $100, I plead no contest, the judge put me on 3 month traffic "probation" and it stayed off my driving record. If I'd plead 'not guilty' it's my word against the police, and if found guilty I'd owe another $500 in 'court costs' for the 'trial' AND have a hit on my driving record. I was IMO completely innocent, but I paid the fine - no brainer. I'm not sure why I wouldn't take the $320 cost in this case for the same reasons, even if innocent.

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They don't even need to do it. They know what I look like, they have a phone and if I stole something they have video proof. I see no reason I should go with them. If they want to kidnap some dude they can pick someone else.
    This isn't about ****ing kidnapping. The reason the individual is taken to a back room is so that 1) They can be confronted with evidence that they were shoplifting 2) be given a choice to either pay for the merchandise or return it to the store and 3) if some type of confrontation or dispute arises it doesn't become a spectacle for the whole store to see. It isn't like detaining someone in a jail cell.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Pay us or we値l call the cops: Many U.S. stores giving shoplifters choice of puni

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Indeed. If I am being accosted and threatened unrightfully, I think I am very emotionally damaged, and will be receiving a nice fat piece of compensation from Bloomingdales' for my troubles.
    Glad you understood my thinking!

    I'm not afraid but under false pretense, they certainly would have a bigger problem for holding me.

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