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Thread: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Or, if Pelosi really thinks that it's so important to fund the DHS, then she wouldn't be playing chicken and would throw her support behind it. This road travels both ways you know?
    Sure it does, but it doesn't work the way the hard liners believe it should work, with them dictating all the terms of the legislation with no input from democrats and Pelosi saying, "OK, great, now that you've given me NOTHING, I'll deliver the votes!!"

    I'm sure she'd help out and line up the needed votes in an hour because she IS a competent leader of her caucus, but it will take COMPROMISE on the part of the GOP, and that's the problem - they're not willing to do that at this point.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Sure it does, but it doesn't work the way the hard liners believe it should work, with them dictating all the terms of the legislation with no input from democrats and Pelosi saying, "OK, great, now that you've given me NOTHING, I'll deliver the votes!!"

    I'm sure she'd help out and line up the needed votes in an hour because she IS a competent leader of her caucus, but it will take COMPROMISE on the part of the GOP, and that's the problem - they're not willing to do that at this point.
    Neither is the Democrats though. If they were, we wouldn't of been in this position in the first place because Obama wouldn't of forced through unilaterally what he wanted. And I also wouldn't say she's that competent a leader, I mean the she has consistently lost more and more seats to the Republicans after all...

    But beyond that, again, she is playing politics with America's security, or at least that's what many on the left are saying about Republicans. If she really believed that this was so important, then politics be damned man! Clearly, she doesn't believe it is, so why should the Republicans not act any differently?

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    DHS apparently has been ordered to not do its job by the POTUS so, if ever there was an office that was worthy of defunding...

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Since when? Look, ten or fifteen years ago then what you said would be completely true. But ever since that first term where the Democrats controlled everything, they set the tone and the Republicans have been more than happy to follow suit. It also doesn't help when Obama won't even meet with Republican leaders. Let me ask you think, If Obama really cared at all what the Reps thought, then why not just put out what he expected in an Immigration Bill, give a six month deadline for them to pass something, and if nothing happened then he could go the unilateral route with the cover that he gave the Reps a chance. No, instead, he just did what he wanted and couldn't care less of the consequences.
    First of all, you have to at least acknowledge that the GOP met before inauguration and pledged to block the democrats on everything. Before inauguration. And they followed through with that. Here's one story.

    In case you don't want to read, Obama set up a meeting with the GOP on stimulus in his first WEEK in office. Before he got to that first meeting just with the GOP, Boehner had already gone public with pleas for the GOP to oppose it. Cantor had ALREADY promised to whip a count of ZERO GOPers in support, and that's what they did.

    So what do you expect? The big problem among progressives is this was obvious from day one, but the Democrats still believed against all evidence on things like the ACA that if they gave into some GOP demands that they'd have some GOP cross over and provide needed votes. Time and again that didn't happen. Record filibusters - shattered the old records.

    Now as to immigration, you can say that Obama wasn't serious about immigration reform, but he's repeatedly said that he wants the Congress to act, and they haven't. And he submitted the outlines of reform in 2013, as you suggested. Here's the outlines from 1/29/2013.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...ne-plays-rules

    Later that year, the Senate passed a bill 68-32, so with bipartisan support. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ses-93530.html

    So the POTUS did what you asked, and the Senate including republicans responded.

    Bottom line, the head of the US Government isn't Boenher, but the POTUS himself, Obama. He could get this done if he were willing to work with the other side but he's not and never has been. Sadly, many Republicans were more than happy to take the same hardline approach the President did, and we are where we are now.
    But Obama can't pass immigration reform. That requires a majority in the House and 60 votes in the Senate. You can bring Obama into this when he vetoes a bill that got through that process.
    Last edited by JasperL; 02-27-15 at 09:14 PM.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Neither is the Democrats though. If they were, we wouldn't of been in this position in the first place because Obama wouldn't of forced through unilaterally what he wanted. And I also wouldn't say she's that competent a leader, I mean the she has consistently lost more and more seats to the Republicans after all...
    As I cited above, he's been asking for the Congress to pass immigration reform forever, and submitted his own outline in January 2013, and the Senate passed a bill in 2013. The House failed to act - didn't pass anything.

    And what I'm referring to with Pelosi is her ability as Speaker, not as national chair of DNC or whatever. She controlled her troops - if she needed 218 votes, she got 218, and she damn well never (that I recall) was embarrassed by her progressive caucus double crossing her and her Whip and not delivering the votes she was promised. Boehner has none of that control or ability to lead and is constantly being embarrassed by his far right flank.

    But beyond that, again, she is playing politics with America's security, or at least that's what many on the left are saying about Republicans. If she really believed that this was so important, then politics be damned man! Clearly, she doesn't believe it is, so why should the Republicans not act any differently?
    That's pretty funny - the GOP has the majority and it's Pelosi's fault because she won't rally her troops when the GOP offers her NOTHING in compromise? Seriously, that might work with the GOP faithful, but not with the rest of us. Pelosi is under no obligation to eat crap from the GOP then bail them out of a jam. It's not how it works.
    Last edited by JasperL; 02-27-15 at 09:15 PM.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    imo, the Dems have shot themselves in the foot. The Dems should have supported the bill that excludes funding of the Presidents EO. If the EO's on immigration are such a good deal for the country the Dems should have no problem getting a separate funding bill through both Houses to fund the EO's.

    At any rate Congress continues to spend money we don't have. Is not the US borrowing about .40c of every dollar it spends.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    First of all, you have to at least acknowledge that the GOP met before inauguration and pledged to block the democrats on everything. Before inauguration. And they followed through with that. Here's one story.
    This is already not the case as Republicans did work with Obama on the Stimulus package and it passed with a lot of Republican votes that really weren't needed at the time. Also, this is all very silly, when you realize that even if the Republicans wanted to say "no" to everything, they couldn't of blocked ****. Democrats held a Super-Majority. In fact the only ones who blocked the ACA bill was other Democrats! But speaking of the ACA

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    In case you don't want to read, Obama set up a meeting with the GOP on stimulus in his first WEEK in office. Before he got to that first meeting just with the GOP, Boehner had already gone public with pleas for the GOP to oppose it. Cantor had ALREADY promised to whip a count of ZERO GOPers in support, and that's what they did.
    So what do you expect? The big problem among progressives is this was obvious from day one, but the Democrats still believed against all evidence on things like the ACA that if they gave into some GOP demands that they'd have some GOP cross over and provide needed votes. Time and again that didn't happen. Record filibusters - shattered the old records.

    There is nothing about the ACA that the Republicans wanted. There was never any demands that were "given in". Unless you're talking about all the lies that Obama told about the plan to sell it to Congress like how funds wouldn't go to support Abortion. And before you even try, don't bother bringing up the old "the IM was a Republican idea" shtick. First off, I dare you to find me a Republican that in 2009 was supporting that and you won't. The reason being that when the idea was originally proposed, it was under different circumstances (mainly the abolishment of Medicare and Medicaid). Second, it was never the Republicans that were blocking it in the first place but the Blue Dog Democrats. Which incidentally, Pelosi was glad to be rid of as they weren't progressive enough for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Now as to immigration, you can say that Obama wasn't serious about immigration reform, but he's repeatedly said that he wants the Congress to act, and they haven't. And he submitted the outlines of reform in 2013, as you suggested. Here's the outlines from 1/29/2013.

    FACT SHEET: Fixing our Broken Immigration System so Everyone Plays by the Rules | The White House

    But Obama can't pass immigration reform. That requires a majority in the House and 60 votes in the Senate. You can bring Obama into this when he vetoes a bill that got through that process.
    My problem with what Obama did isn't the substance of what he did. In fact, I believe the Dream Act should of been passed. And while you can argue the fact sheet was out there for some time, the truth of the matter was that the new Republican controlled Congress didn't even get a chance to be sworn in before Obama tried his unilateral approach. What would of been the harm in laying down a real ultimatum to the new congress to pass something before going off and doing what he wanted?

    Look, ultimately, Obama is just as much an ideologue as any Republican you want to point too. If this was fifteen or twenty years ago, Obama would of said he'd allow the Keystone Pipeline to go through (and another small bone, something to level the balances) in exchange for taking the Dream Act up and passing it. But Obama isn't going to even consider Keystone, no more than the Republicans want to consider the Dream Act. No one wins, and that's the state of our politics.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    He can just sign an executive order that funds the DHS with his pen and phone.... no?
    TBH, I think it's possible. Also lol.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Or, if Pelosi really thinks that it's so important to fund the DHS, then she wouldn't be playing chicken and would throw her support behind it. This road travels both ways you know?
    That's a blatant distortion and you know it. You've heard of arithmetic, right? The GOP has the majority in the House. They can pass anything they want, any time they're in session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    lighten up.. i'm regurgitating the kind of spin/rhetoric that has been commonplace over the last few years.... push me any further, and i'll start chatting about the Democratic parties war on white heterosexual pregnant women in the private sector.
    Uh, can we have that discussion in another thread where the clock isn't ticking?

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    Re: DHS funding expected to run out as key House vote fails

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As I cited above, he's been asking for the Congress to pass immigration reform forever, and submitted his own outline in January 2013, and the Senate passed a bill in 2013. The House failed to act - didn't pass anything.

    And what I'm referring to with Pelosi is her ability as Speaker, not as national chair of DNC or whatever. She controlled her troops - if she needed 218 votes, she got 218, and she damn well never (that I recall) was embarrassed by her progressive caucus double crossing her and her Whip and not delivering the votes she was promised. Boehner has none of that control or ability to lead and is constantly being embarrassed by his far right flank.
    Pelosi and Obama are both Ideologues, who no more can find compromises or work the game than Cruz can if called up. Hell, if she was so good, it wouldn't of taken forever for the ACA to be passed after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's pretty funny - the GOP has the majority and it's Pelosi's fault because she won't rally her troops when the GOP offers her NOTHING in compromise? Seriously, that might work with the GOP faithful, but not with the rest of us. Pelosi is under no obligation to eat crap from the GOP then bail them out of a jam. It's not how it works.
    There's something my flight instructor once told me, and that was that whenever you have a disaster, a dozen or so things have to go wrong at the same time. While the end point of this current little crisis we got may be Republicans not passing a bill, there's plenty of blame to go around that started far before today.

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