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Thread: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

  1. #111
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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    govt IS accountable to the people. Much more than big corporations.
    Huh? How many from NSA in jail for doing warrantless wiretapping? How many of the Keating 5 actually went to jail? Government is the least accountable "big corporation" out there.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Who the hell is Tom Wheeler? How and why this guy no one has heard of has the power to alter something that effects virtually every American without debate is something everyone should oppose.
    Tom Wheeler was a "industry insider" for years and he decided to get political and raise $500,000 for Obama. Quid pro quo.. at it's finest..
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  3. #113
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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    The funny thing is when he was appointed most of us were worried he'd line up with the big telecom and ISP providers on everything, given his background (he was a cable company lobbyist). He's turned out to actually be an independent thinker.

    By the way - he was unanimously confirmed by the Senate. Not like no one knew who he was.
    FCC Leadership | FCC.gov

    And setting regulations IS HIS JOB. He's doing it.
    He held those positions LONG before internet was a thing. Fact his last job as a lobbyist in Cable was in 1986. He had a bigger impact at CITA when he started in 1992..
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  4. #114
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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Because you'd rather have google or verizon or comcast doing it?

    Seriously, what is with people and their paranoia of govt? But they happily hand their data over to big companies all the time (who then turn around and give it straight to the govt, but that's a different thread)

    At least with govt, we can elect different people who can then appoint different FCC regulators. With big business, very few of us have any real choice in our ISP providers.

    And please let me know if your phones - regulated under the same provision - are set so you can't complain about the govt over them....
    Specifically, If I do not like my ISP, I have other choices.
    If I do not like my land line telephone provider, I am stuck with them based on my geography.
    Ant this is thanks to the FCC.
    Cable companies the same, until ISPs started delivering tv services.
    So in the two examples in the past, the FCC has limited choices, not expanded them.

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Consumers always pay in one way or another. The question is which pay how much. The important thing is getting that relation right. If the individual user does not pay for the amount he uses, the price system cannot optimize the system. It is inefficient.
    That means it will cost more and deliver poorer qualities. That is fine, if you have other priorities. But it is important to know, what the real price of the decision is.
    Cable companies have started moving to capping bandwidth users of customers. That's directly tying usage to cost. That is by far the most clear way that consumers can gauge the cost and effectiveness of different providers.

    A pricing system where both end users and content providers are charged is a murky pricing structure where the "true" cost of internet bandwidth is difficult to determine.

    In the first system an end user can compare among different internet providers. In the secondary system the end user has no idea what their true cost is. They may be paying an extra 20 dollars a month through various content providers as well as their monthly fee.

    I'm not sure how any market system is benefited from creating a murky cost structure for consumers. We see what has happened in the healthcare industry where we don't directly pay our direct service provider but instead a third party. It's a horrible system.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Here's the simple fact.

    For all those claiming that this is "Keeping the internet as it is today" then the FCC will take NO proactive actions. Any regulatory action they take will simply be reactionary to attempts by telecoms to take action that would alter the notion of a free internet.

    If the FCC begins to take pro-active regulatory action and impliment things, like a tax, onto service providers then it most definitely is not "keeping the internet as it is today" and legitimately is simply a regulatory power grab aimed at allowing the government to CONTROL internet access as opposed to MAINTAIN the status quo.

    Attemtping to utilize it now being listed as a utility as a means of starting to pro-actively place regulation and taxes, SUPPOSEDLY in the name of expanding internet access to more people, is NOT simply attempting to "Maintain the Internet as it exists today".

    If the action today is used SINGULARLY as a means of taking action when a telecom attempts to impliment a practice that conflicts with the basic net neutrality principle that all data should be treated equally, then that's fine and I applaud it and it would be doing what it is routinely being presented as doing.

    If it's used to justify levying additional taxes on telecoms, enacting proactive regulations and restrictions on how much telecoms can charge or how they must treat data OTHER than treating it all equally, or any other sort of regulation that isn't strictly and narrowly related to the basic net neutrlaity principle then I'm not okay with it as it is simply a utilization of the notion of Net Neutrality to in truth simply grant an expansive and troublesome amount of Government Control onto the internet, essentially changing out one potential tormentor for another.

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Government kills people quite literally by the millions. I don't think this is the battle you want to be in.
    Read the thread instead of single posts.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here's the simple fact.

    For all those claiming that this is "Keeping the internet as it is today" then the FCC will take NO proactive actions. Any regulatory action they take will simply be reactionary to attempts by telecoms to take action that would alter the notion of a free internet.

    If the FCC begins to take pro-active regulatory action and impliment things, like a tax, onto service providers then it most definitely is not "keeping the internet as it is today" and legitimately is simply a regulatory power grab aimed at allowing the government to CONTROL internet access as opposed to MAINTAIN the status quo.

    Attemtping to utilize it now being listed as a utility as a means of starting to pro-actively place regulation and taxes, SUPPOSEDLY in the name of expanding internet access to more people, is NOT simply attempting to "Maintain the Internet as it exists today".

    If the action today is used SINGULARLY as a means of taking action when a telecom attempts to impliment a practice that conflicts with the basic net neutrality principle that all data should be treated equally, then that's fine and I applaud it and it would be doing what it is routinely being presented as doing.

    If it's used to justify levying additional taxes on telecoms, enacting proactive regulations and restrictions on how much telecoms can charge or how they must treat data OTHER than treating it all equally, or any other sort of regulation that isn't strictly and narrowly related to the basic net neutrlaity principle then I'm not okay with it as it is simply a utilization of the notion of Net Neutrality to in truth simply grant an expansive and troublesome amount of Government Control onto the internet, essentially changing out one potential tormentor for another.
    Yes if different hypothetical things start hypothetically happening then I bet different opinions will form on the different things that are hypothetically happen.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes if different hypothetical things start hypothetically happening then I bet different opinions will form on the different things that are hypothetically happen.
    Well yes, the reality is everything right now is HYPOTHETICAL because frankly we:

    1. Don't know the full information within the provision that just got passed
    2. We have no way of actually knowing how they plan on using the provisions we don't know

    So everything people are talking about in this thread is basically based on hypotheticals, whether they're going about acknowledging that as clearly as I did or not. No one knows what was actually passed, nor does anyone know exactly how it's going to be done, so anyone claiming that this is a GOOD or a BAD thing is doing so based on the hypothetical assumptions in their head as to how it will play out.

    Unlike others who seem to be taking a dedicated "this is good" or "this is bad" stance, assuming the hypothetical way they expect this to play out is the only way it will expect out, I decided I wanted to deal with the two broad potential ways I could see it playing out and expressing my views on it based on that. As it stands, I'm simply neutral to the notion of this passage, taking a "I'll wait and see" feeling, because there is plenty of legitimate and plausible factors and bits of context to lead one to think this could easily go either way.

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    Re: FCC adopts Net neutrality rules to ban Internet discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fcc-ad...ail&soc_trk=ma

    It passed! I think this is a good thing. It protects consumers and businesses alike, to ensure that a business on the internet has enough internet speed so as not to discourage users from using its site, and prevents telecom companies from blackmailing them (pay us a "special fee" every year, and we'll protect you against us; otherwise, we'll slow down your speed so that you won't get any traffic). That ensures that we the consumers will get search results that are more reflective of what's out there on the internet, and not just results from the bigger businesses that have paid the "special fees."

    The internet was net neutral in the beginning. Along the way the telecom companies devised this scheme to blackmail businesses, so that they were not only gouging consumers, they could gouge businesses, too.
    This could be good. I think we need true Net Neutrality. But this is the FCC, so who really knows what we'll end up with.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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