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Thread: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the Bal

  1. #11
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    Re: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Read up on how all the Stans, former Republics got nervous with that reasoning.
    Indeed. Their situation is if anything even more precarious as they are militarily non aligned nations . For example Putin could just as easily make a case for invading Kazakhstan and 'liberating' the Baikonur Space complex as he did with Crimea and the port of Sevastopol. He could again claim this was a vital interest for Russia in his ongoing empire rebuilding programme. Developments there will be interesting to watch. All this has certain ominous analogies with the 1930s situation for Nazi Germany and her neighbours

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    Re: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    European defence outlays have declined significantly since the end of the Cold War. According to NATO data, real defence expenditure per capita in NATO Europe has fallen to just over half the levels seen in 1990, and is down by more than a fifth since 2000. These long-term reductions were accelerated by the 2008 transatlantic financial crisis, as Western states slashed defence outlays further as governments prioritised fiscal consolidation.

    Europe (including non-NATO states) collectively now spends only about 1.4% of GDP on defence. This is one of the lowest proportions of GDP spent on defence of any region of the world – the only region that spends appreciably less on defence (as a proportion of GDP) is Latin America. Within NATO, only four out of 28 member states currently meet the Alliance’s 2% spending target: the US, UK, Greece and Estonia. Even Germany – the economic powerhouse of Europe – only allocates 1.3% of GDP to defence, a figure that is lower than the NATO European average of around 1.6% of GDP. This average budgetary allocation in NATO Europe is itself down from around 2.5% of GDP in the early 1990s.
    I know. I have been following it for a good while.Most of the Europeans have been free riding America defence spending and security, while competing with the saved resources head on with the United States. This is not totally applicable to the behavior of all EU nations equally. Holland, Poland and a number of others hat helped. This was especially true of England and France has been much better since realizing the size of its mistake in helping Putin support Saddam into war. But Germany has been disgraceful and a loose cannon from Yugoslavia through Iraq till this very day.

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    Re: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I know. I have been following it for a good while.Most of the Europeans have been free riding America defence spending and security, while competing with the saved resources head on with the United States. This is not totally applicable to the behavior of all EU nations equally. Holland, Poland and a number of others hat helped. This was especially true of England and France has been much better since realizing the size of its mistake in helping Putin support Saddam into war. But Germany has been disgraceful and a loose cannon from Yugoslavia through Iraq till this very day.
    I think with the Germans its the fact that they got such a hiding in WW2 and also the national guilt in the aftermath of it that has made them shun militarism in general. Now I'm not saying thats right but I rather think its ingrained in the national psyche there. Japans defence spending is even lower at 1.0% and I suspect similar reasons apply there too

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    Re: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I think with the Germans its the fact that they got such a hiding in WW2 and also the national guilt in the aftermath of it that has made them shun militarism in general. Now I'm not saying thats right but I rather think its ingrained in the national psyche there. Japans defence spending is even lower at 1.0% and I suspect similar reasons apply there too
    It is certainly a nice excuse to save your own treasure and lives.

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    Re: NATO, Russia conducting military exercises around Estonia, stoking fears that the

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is certainly a nice excuse to save your own treasure and lives.
    Or maybe they don't want to frighten their neighbours into arming against them instead (they have both got some serious form here after all) so I don't think the blood and treasure argument is their primary consideration for such parsimonious spending

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