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Thread: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

  1. #271
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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Why does it need to be portrayed as the extreme of a concentration camp?

    I'd be willing to bet that in your life you have also found some government doings to be not quite what you expected or wanted, so I'm failing to understand your defending of the secrecy. If it's so benign, why not just put the specifics out there... and maybe have some public debate prior to the vote?
    Because you asked:

    There’s already a conspiracy theory brewing over net neutrality - The Washington Post

    Why won't they release the rules?!?!

    It's been less than 24 hours since the Federal Communications Commission voted to approve strict new regulations on Internet providers, but that's the leading question coming from its critics.

    Conservatives are demanding that the FCC release a full copy of the regulations that it's planning to impose on companies such as Comcast and Verizon — and taking the agency's silence as evidence of a cover-up.
    Let's stop this nonsense right here. It's a stretch to think the FCC is withholding anything. While it was certainly within FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler's power to release his draft proposal before it came to a vote, the regulations now must go through a formal process before they become official. And say what you will about bureaucratic inefficiency, but that's the chief reason the FCC won't be releasing the rules for some time.
    When that's done — probably after a few weeks — the FCC will post the rules on the agency's Web site. At that point the public will be able to see the specific language. It'll be another few weeks before the document will be published in the Federal Register, the collection of all the rules and notices adopted by the government.

    For the most part, the rules won't take effect for another 60 days after that. Certain parts of the regulation will take even longer.

    "Until then, a lot of nothing's going to happen," said a telecom industry official, who asked not to be named to discuss internal deliberations more freely.
    There's no more secrecy now than there was when the FCC was regulating the internet as a title ii utility from 2010-2015.

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There isn't any point debating with an ideologue who proposes a timeline of a crisis that entirely omits one of the major parties involved.
    How about YOU provide that timeline ?

    If you want me to then I should really start a new thread since the Sub-prime collapse isnt really relevant to the op.
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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    Funny thing is, so have I. I've discussed it to death. I read about it for years. It came up in this thread because you pointed at Clinton because he signed the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act, implying that him and him alone caused the crash. If you are such an expert then you know that was a Republican bill. So if you going to be fair don't just point at Clinton. You want me to post something substantial but all you did was post a 1/2 truth about the CFM Act? Look in the mirror.

    That was my point, that's all. I think we dragged this thread far enough off-topic.
    But there's so much more to the Sub-Prime bubble than the CFM Act. There's the 1994 Riegle Neal Act .

    " The Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 removed many of the restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines. These restrictions were largely the result of the McFadden Act in 1927 and other laws that attempted to address long-standing concerns about the concentration of financial activity and worries that large banking organizations operating in multiple states could not be adequately supervised. In addition, the act allowed banking organizations to acquire banks in any other state under a uniform, nationwide standard. "

    It also tied a Banks CRA scores to their ability to get Federal approval to expand across State lines.

    There's Clintons 1995 “The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream”, act ( a long list of executive orders ) which gave the GSEs a " affordable lending quota of 42 % and allowed the Fannie and Freddie to count Sub-prime Loans toward their HUD affordable lending quotas.

    But this thread isn't about the Sub-prime Mortgage crisis, but it IS about Government regulations enacted under false pretenses and that's absolutely relevant to Clinton's Fair lending initiative and the Regulations that followed it.

    You see, " discriminatory lending practices " was a manufactured narrative and Banks didn't really discriminate based on the color of peoples skin. They discriminated based on things like Credit Score, income and down payments amounts. Clinton ordered the Boston Fed in 1992 to publish a study that gave credibility to his false narrative of " discriminatory lending ".

    The report was full of mistakes and used subjective criteria to come to the conclusion that lenders were discriminating based on skin color. On the back of that report he, via executive order created hundreds of new regulations to mandate " fairness and equity ".


    Since Obama and people in his administration including Eric Holder and Valerie Jarret were neck deep in the Trillion dollar bank shakedown in the 90's, ANY new Regulations passed under the pretense of " fairness and equity " should be highly suspect.
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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    But there's so much more to the Sub-Prime bubble than the CFM Act. There's the 1994 Riegle Neal Act .

    " The Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 removed many of the restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines. These restrictions were largely the result of the McFadden Act in 1927 and other laws that attempted to address long-standing concerns about the concentration of financial activity and worries that large banking organizations operating in multiple states could not be adequately supervised. In addition, the act allowed banking organizations to acquire banks in any other state under a uniform, nationwide standard. "

    It also tied a Banks CRA scores to their ability to get Federal approval to expand across State lines.

    There's Clintons 1995 “The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream”, act ( a long list of executive orders ) which gave the GSEs a " affordable lending quota of 42 % and allowed the Fannie and Freddie to count Sub-prime Loans toward their HUD affordable lending quotas.

    But this thread isn't about the Sub-prime Mortgage crisis, but it IS about Government regulations enacted under false pretenses and that's absolutely relevant to Clinton's Fair lending initiative and the Regulations that followed it.

    You see, " discriminatory lending practices " was a manufactured narrative and Banks didn't really discriminate based on the color of peoples skin. They discriminated based on things like Credit Score, income and down payments amounts. Clinton ordered the Boston Fed in 1992 to publish a study that gave credibility to his false narrative of " discriminatory lending ".

    The report was full of mistakes and used subjective criteria to come to the conclusion that lenders were discriminating based on skin color. On the back of that report he, via executive order created hundreds of new regulations to mandate " fairness and equity ".


    Since Obama and people in his administration including Eric Holder and Valerie Jarret were neck deep in the Trillion dollar bank shakedown in the 90's, ANY new Regulations passed under the pretense of " fairness and equity " should be highly suspect.
    I know there's much more. I only addresses the CFM act because that's what you pointed to, when you tried to put all the blame for the crash on Clinton.

    There's also videos of Bush bragging about the surge of new home owners under his watch. And the CRA? The mortgage banks like Counrtywide who committed vast amounts of fraud, forgeries and rampant greed, had nothing to do with the CRA, also most of the subprime loans were made by firms that weren't subject to the CRA. And the rating agencies who happily stamped AAA on the garbage that the banks were giving them also had nothing to do with CRA. Without those AAA ratings the banks wouldn't have been able to get rid of that garbage.

    There's plenty of blame to go around.

    Just look at the differences between your posts on this subject, and mine. I have blamed everyone, because that's where the blame belongs, on everyone. While you only blame the Dems and Clinton. Over the years that's been conservatives MO on the crash. The refuse to blame the Republican politicians, even though the GOP deserves some of the blame. They refuse to blame the banks, and Wall Street, and rating agencies, even though their actions caused the crash. You don't want to discuss what really caused the crash, you just want to use it to further your 'all Dems are evil and stupid' agenda'.

    I's not discussing this anymore, especially in this thread.
    Last edited by SenorXm/Sirius; 02-28-15 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #275
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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    There's no more secrecy now than there was when the FCC was regulating the internet as a title ii utility from 2010-2015.
    Thank you for posting that. Good info.

    But, I never claimed there was more secrecy, and as I pointed out in a response to another poster, just because this has been accepted practice in the past does not make it any more kosher.

    Note: My stance on this is for pretty anything government, barring legitimate national defense concerns, etc. NN does not qualify for that exemption.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    I know there's much more. I only addresses the CFM act because that's what you pointed to, when you tried to put all the blame for the crash on Clinton.

    There's also videos of Bush bragging about the surge of new home owners under his watch. And the CRA? The mortgage banks like Counrtywide who committed vast amounts of fraud, forgeries and rampant greed, had nothing to do with the CRA, also most of the subprime loans were made by firms that weren't subject to the CRA. And the rating agencies who happily stamped AAA on the garbage that the banks were giving them also had nothing to do with CRA. Without those AAA ratings the banks wouldn't have been able to get rid of that garbage.

    There's plenty of blame to go around.

    Just look at the differences between your posts on this subject, and mine. I have blamed everyone, because that's where the blame belongs, on everyone. While you only blame the Dems and Clinton. Over the years that's been conservatives MO on the crash. The refuse to blame the Republican politicians, even though the GOP deserves some of the blame. They refuse to blame the banks, and Wall Street, and rating agencies, even though their actions caused the crash. You're just regurgitating the partisan hacks and conservative blogs. You don't want to discuss what really caused the crash, you just want to use it to further your 'all Dems are evil and stupid' agenda'.

    I's not discussing this anymore, especially in this thread.
    Yes, Country Wide was one of the largest originators of Subprime loans.

    Problem is their primary consumer was Fannie Mae, who started working with Country Wide back in 1999 when Country Wide developed a product exclusively for Fannie Mae called the " Fast and EZ " loan.

    Fannie Mae was the primary consumer of Country Wides toxic loans when President Bush was pushing for a third party regulator for the highly corrupt GSEs.

    Democrat Senators like Chris Dodd were taking advantage of " VIP " loan options while fighting off Republican attempts to regulate Country Wides largest customer.

    And Bush's Homeowner-ship initaive was through the FHA, not Fannie and Freddie and Homeowner-ship rates only increased 1 percent over his entire administration.

    Homeowner-ship rates under Clinton rose from 63 percent in 1993 to 68 percent in 2000.

    Thats a 5 percent increase.

    Clintons CRA changes were so " successful " his own Treasury Secretary bragged about the exponential growth in mortgages to low income borrowers.

    From 1992-2000 CRA commitments rose to over a Trillion dollars thanks to his CRA changes and his "fair lending initiative "
    Last edited by Fenton; 02-28-15 at 03:17 PM.

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    Liberals can not be trusted with our freedoms...


    Obama is a disaster
    It completely escapes me how insuring that all content providers have equal access to the internet is an intrusion on our freedoms. Someone has done some serious brainwashing on you if you think that enforcing net neutrality is a bad thing for citizens. It might impede the major ISPs (largely, the cable companies) from using their monopoly positions from extorting more money from content providers but you would have to provide some rational argument why letting cable companies do this is at all good for subscribers.

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yes, Country Wide was one of the largest originators of Subprime loans.

    Problem is their primary consumer was Fannie Mae, who started working with Country Wide back in 1999 when Country Wide developed a product exclusively for Fannie Mae called the " Fast and EZ " loan.

    Fannie Mae was the primary consumer of Country Wides toxic loans when President Bush was pushing for a third party regulator for the highly corrupt GSEs.

    And Bush's Homeowner-ship initaive wereasne through the FHA, not Fannie and Freddie and Homeowner-ship rates only increased 1 percent over his entire administration.

    Homeowner-ship rates under Clinton rose from 63 percent in 1993 to 68 percent in 2000.

    Thats a 5 percent increase.

    Clintons CRA changes were so " successful " his own Treasury Secretary bragged about the exponential growth in mortgages to low income borrowers.
    In your 1st post on this subject you tried to put much of the blame for the crash on Clinton and the CFM act, until I pointed out it was a Republican bill. Then you moved on to trying to say the CRA was a major reason for the crash, until I pointed out most of the subprime loans were made by banks and firms who had nothing to do with CRA. Now you're onto fannie may. I can shoot some of that down too, but then, so you can be true to your agenda, you'll just move onto something else to try and put all the blame on the Dems.

    I've been down this road before with Republicans and conservatives, your material is straight out of the conservative blogs and conservative people like Limbaugh and Hannity. I've heard this all before, and you are regurgitating it almost word for word. Limbaugh and the rest preach to a conservative crowd, so they can get away with the 1/2 truths and exaggerations. And they don't allow dissenting opinions. The problem for conservatives when they discuss the crash on public forums is this isn't a conservative echo chamber, if they are going to try and put all the blame on the Dems, they're going to get called out.

    Someday if you really want to get into a open minded, none partisan politics discussion on this. I'd be all for it. It is an interesting and fascinating subject to discuss. But if you're going to just be an ideologue who's only going to blame one side, then no thanks.

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    Someday if you really want to get into a open minded, none partisan politics discussion on this. I'd be all for it. It is an interesting and fascinating subject to discuss. But if you're going to just be an ideologue who's only going to blame one side, then no thanks.
    The most important thing about the financial crisis is, IMO, precisely that there is widespread and bipartisan support for Wall Street in D.C. If you want to blame Clinton, and ignore Gramm's role or that he's now a senior VP with UBS (one of DOZENS of examples like that, in both parties), then you're missing the key problem, which is Wall Street just wields MASSIVE influence and it doesn't much matter which party is in charge of Congress or the regulators. They all serve the interests of the biggest banks.

    Which is why it's also so funny that anyone can believe anyone in government forced the banks to do a single thing they didn't really want to do, like make loans to poor blahs in the inner city.....

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    Re: Live feed to the FCC vote on Net Neutrality.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The most important thing about the financial crisis is, IMO, precisely that there is widespread and bipartisan support for Wall Street in D.C. If you want to blame Clinton, and ignore Gramm's role or that he's now a senior VP with UBS (one of DOZENS of examples like that, in both parties), then you're missing the key problem, which is Wall Street just wields MASSIVE influence and it doesn't much matter which party is in charge of Congress or the regulators. They all serve the interests of the biggest banks.
    Exactly!

    The crash happens and 1st Bush the Republican bails them out, then Obama the Democrat. That's all anyone needs to know.

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