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US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

It is the right thing to do, and very much in our interest. I'm sorry you can't see that.

no, a war with Russia is definitely not the right thing for the US to do.
 
As I said, we can gladly help the EU militarily. But this is not our immediate problem and is theirs monetarily. I am not sure why we should spend our treasure on a mess the EU triggered.

I wonder if Biden's son can sort this mess out. He was very recently given a spot on the Ukrainian Oil and Gas Corporation Board of Directors, so maybe he has some ideas that can help the Ukrainian people to avoid freezing to death before a decision is reached on how to handle this. :scared:
 

This is an overt and obvious display of the Eastern march of NATO into the old Soviet Republics. Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, and the current domino Ukraine. Seems a small problem with the Eastern march to take over Ukraine. We're blaming Putin and Russia for alleged expansionism and it is a reversal of the facts on the ground. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine have found the NATO medicine a bitter pill to swallow. Their hindsight has proven precocious, as the braying leadership installed by coup organizers has proved inept in every area. Wasting Treasury on War and now near default and bankruptcy. Impoverishing the entire population. Cutting the pensions of the elderly. Raising taxes. Killing citizen savings by deflating the hyrvnia by a factor of 4 or more. Increased energy prices. Compromise of the people's patrimony by using it as collaterol against IMF/NWO/CorpGOV loans guaranteed to be foreclosed upon. Ah yes, the Central Bankers have done their job and now Western CORPORATIONS can divvy up the spoils. Monsanto, Cargill, Chevron, Deere, etc. and it is SOP, standard operating procedure. Now, create a huge public relations brouhaha that it is Russia falling dominos and not NATO and the MSM will play the stenographer for the CIA "Perception Management" agenda's Goebbels oriented script.. The shame and the blame fall upon those so willing to worsen the situation of the already impoverished. The Peace President strikes again.
 
so buy a plane ticket and go join the fight. the rest of us are sick to death of an endless state of unfunded and undeclared war.

True enough. And not just that, even in the event of US victory. Taking on Russia looks NOTHING like taking on Hussein or Gaddafi. The cost would be huge. And, unnecessary!! All the comparisons between Putin and Hitler, Nazis and the 1930's is total bull****.

How Russian military might is eroding the Western alliance
October 3, 2014 Rakesh Krishnan Simha
Backed by a resurgent military, Russia’s high-octane foreign policy is exposing the limits of US adventurism and in the process weakening the western alliance.

How Russian military might is eroding the Western alliance | Russia & India Report
 
i want us out of all of it. if the world wants an army, it should build and fund one.



bring them all home.



bring them home. it's time to nation build here.



that stupid ****ing pipeline should have been traded for something else, but our politicians are politically inept idiots who refuse to compromise. ****, i would have supported trading it for everyone finally shutting the **** up about it. the oil is going to get processed anyway. give the right their precious ****ing pipeline, and trade it for wind farm subsidies or something. that's how Washington used to work.



Saudi Arabia is the regional hegemon, and Iraq is their responsibility to sort out. we have our own country to worry about, and we need to get out of the war business.

Bring them all home repeated several times does not equal a response to my points. You started 'em....we, as in your best friend are getting tired of sending our boys in to help and hear guys like you bleat "no one helps us..."
 
True enough. And not just that, even in the event of US victory. Taking on Russia looks NOTHING like taking on Hussein or Gaddafi. The cost would be huge. And, unnecessary!! All the comparisons between Putin and Hitler, Nazis and the 1930's is total bull****.

How Russian military might is eroding the Western alliance
October 3, 2014 Rakesh Krishnan Simha
Backed by a resurgent military, Russia’s high-octane foreign policy is exposing the limits of US adventurism and in the process weakening the western alliance.

How Russian military might is eroding the Western alliance | Russia & India Report

it's their go to. if you don't support US involvement in every single war on the planet, you want hitler to win. however, it has to be the right hitler. right now, boko haram and kim jong un are the wrong hitlers.
 
Bring them all home repeated several times does not equal a response to my points. You started 'em....we, as in your best friend are getting tired of sending our boys in to help and hear guys like you bleat "no one helps us..."

i want to bring home Canadians, as well. if we bring all of them home, maybe then we can afford a sane health care system like yours, and to send our kids to college instead.

we need to get out of the war business. if the world wants an army, it needs to build it and fund it.
 
i want to bring home Canadians, as well. if we bring all of them home, maybe then we can afford a sane health care system like yours, and to send our kids to college instead.

...for..... about thirty seconds.


:) then regional hegemons rush to fill the vacuum and our economies ( which are utterly dependent upon unfettered global trade ) collapse and we can't afford F'ing anything :).
 
Ukraine is not our neighbor, and a proxy war with Russia is much more serious than a small fire in the neighbor's yard. but you already knew that.

What do we care what Putin does in his own back yard?
 
Bring them all home repeated several times does not equal a response to my points. You started 'em....we, as in your best friend are getting tired of sending our boys in to help and hear guys like you bleat "no one helps us..."

Not all Americans have forgotten our allies. Even though we dont always agree they have stuck by us.

I think Helix is more concerned with how he can extract the income of others for his personal gain, I find that short sighted.
 
no, a war with Russia is definitely not the right thing for the US to do.

We will not be at war with Russia. Russia has invaded Ukraine, and the Ukrainians will defend their independence and freedom. We will help them, as free people do when facing aggression.
 
Unfortunately NATO troops aren’t supporting or fortifying these former USSR countries in an effort to protect their fledgling democracies from KGB Chief and Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. I’m willing to bet that Ukraine and several former Soviet countries will be annexed into Russia before Obama leaves office.

Greetings, GPS_Flex. :2wave:

Interesting. By their choice or by force?
 
I wonder if Biden's son can sort this mess out. He was very recently given a spot on the Ukrainian Oil and Gas Corporation Board of Directors, so maybe he has some ideas that can help the Ukrainian people to avoid freezing to death before a decision is reached on how to handle this. :scared:

Biden's son is certainly just what that problem takes.
 
Budget size does matter. On the ground they masy ot be complaining of budget cuts, but they'll be complaining that the Americans got all the good gadgets.

SAS doesn't complain about their tools.

Also, that's funny, if the SAS were better why did they fail to capture Bin Laden while Seal team 6, the oh so bad baddies killed the ****er in his friend's house?

LOL.. you really are ignorant on how the system works. Here are 3 basic reasons why..

1) Was a CIA op.

2) CIA gives these types of missions in house (means US units only).

3) JSOC was ran by William H. McRaven at the time. McRaven is a Navy SEAL. So it obviously went to ST6 over Delta.

Now if CIA had decided to toss it to SAS. There wouldn't be that many loose lips about the operations and so many books by guys who claimed to have had the kill shot.
 
Budget size absolutely does mafter. The smaller your budget the less money is available for comducting training and good training costs a ton of money. It also allows you to test out new equipment and ways to do things. It also allows you to have a much better support system. Things like that make a huge difference.

Also the bigger the pool you are drawing from the more likely you are to get the perfect candidate. And you got anything to back up that the SAS is the most selective or just your opinion.

Also while you are right that the SAS has been as busy as the rest of our SOF what about the rest of their military. How much combat experience are those new recruites bringing to the SAS when they come over. The majority of huys going over to Delta already have 6 or 7 combat trips if not more along with years working in SOF. All of those things matter. And to continually try and claim that because some of our SOF is based of Brittish SOF they somehow are better is just silly. Who may or may not have been better 40 years ago has zero bearing on who is better now.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying ours are better than theirs or anything like that. In this day and age the difference between any top teir SOF element is very very small and a competition between them would more than likely come down to who was having a better day.

With that said having worked with SEALs quite a bit I am not a huge fan of how that organization is run.

Special Operations money is black budget money. Doesn't exist on paper as you know. UKSF selection (SAS and SBS) is quiet solitary. SAS and SBS selects guys who have combat experience. SAS requires 3 years of service prior and picks those who are combat under their belt. SBS typically selects Royal Marines after 2 years of service. SAS and SBS has a maximum try out age.. 32 is the cutoff. Delta doesn't have that hard cut off (that I know of) and typically recruits from Rangers, SF and other special operations units so they tend to have more deployments. But the road is still the same. Gotta have service (time) under your belt. SAS likes to get their hands on you earlier because they see you as a long term project. Delta gets the guys they don't have to "train" up that much.

I've already said that the difference is small. That SAS and Delta are pretty close.. but SAS and Delta are ahead of ST6. Marcinko always regretted not setting up a formal selection process for ST6 and there still isn't one.
 
We will not be at war with Russia. Russia has invaded Ukraine, and the Ukrainians will defend their independence and freedom. We will help them, as free people do when facing aggression.

we will be in a proxy war with Russia, as we are now. neither side will take it farther than that, hopefully.
 
Rebutted so many times now by someone who knows a lot better about all things Russian or Ukrainian

The Ukraine crisis according to John J. Mearsheimer: Impeccable Logic, Wrong Facts

You posted it once.

Its initial premise is that all the facts are wrong because Mearsheimer got the location of the Napoleonic invasions wrong.
His second premise is that NATO is 'not an impressive military alliance'.

And I pointed out it was a bit silly, and I'm sure you'd trumpet a Ukrainian peasant woman as 'knowing more about all things Ukrainian' if she agreed with your view.

Here's the meat of the Mearsheimer argument:

“Putin’s actions should be easy to comprehend,” writes Mearsheimer. Ukraine is a “huge expanse of flat land that Napoleonic France, imperial Germany, and Nazi Germany all crossed to strike at Russia itself.” Since Ukraine serves as a “buffer state of enormous strategic importance to Russia … no Russian leader would tolerate a military alliance that was Moscow’s mortal enemy until recently moving into Ukraine.” By the same token, no “Russian leader [would] stand idly by while the West helped install a government there that was determined to integrate Ukraine into the West.” After all, “great powers are always sensitive to potential threats near their home territory.”
 
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