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Thread: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

  1. #411
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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Oh no, Monte. I think the opposite will happen. I believe the EU will go along with Putin on Crimea - the Crimeans did vote to go back under the Russian umbrella, after all - so that's not an issue, IMO. What I meant was the EU countries will try to find a way to encourage the Ukraine to allow a "land bridge" through their country so Russia can get to their Crimean seaport - maybe a forgiveness of some of the billions of debt they owe for the oil and gas Russia has provided over the years? Most of the Ukrainean people do speak the Russian language so it's not like a totally new foreign country is involved, and the Ukraine was always a part of the Russian empire until Khruschev gave them autonomy. I don't know how all this will play out, but that's my thoughts today - subject to change, of course.
    Ah, I see. Sorry to have misunderstood you. I agree with you on that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Well you have a number of problems there

    a) Providing any evidence that the West armed or financed the Maidan revolt
    b) That the majority of Ukrainians living in Donetsk and Luhansk are not ethnic Russian
    c) That the Ukraine was not just about to join NATO but was negotiating EU membership

    But don't let these inconvenient facts get in the way of your usual tedious anti Western/US rant
    No, you have problems. But too many have tried to help you. Best to let you ramble about. Still tickled that Putin rubs such a rash on you, lol.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    It's not up to Putin to decide what is best for another nation. If he wants that power, then let him run for political office in Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc.
    Nor are any such decisions up to you or Obama.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I completely agree that Putin's move on Crimea was a response to Ukraine's westward turn. That turn was not the product of Western interference, but reflected the aspirations of Ukrainians. Putin's objectives are to break the Ukrainian government, cow the EU and destroy NATO.
    I just don't know why you think Putin wants anything more than a freeze on NATO expansion.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No, you have problems. But too many have tried to help you. Best to let you ramble about. Still tickled that Putin rubs such a rash on you, lol.
    By all means keep cuddling up to your pet despot. Why should anyone else care given its only your own credibility you are trashing by doing so.

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nor are any such decisions up to you or Obama.
    Thats right . They are up to the Ukrainians and they don't want the Russians back again but want to join the EU, not that you care a jot about their aspirations

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Thats right . They are up to the Ukrainians and they don't want the Russians back again but want to join the EU, not that you care a jot about their aspirations
    The Ukrainians should do as they wish. And you should understand your position.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I just don't know why you think Putin wants anything more than a freeze on NATO expansion.
    If that were all he wanted there would not have been (and still be) continuing violence in eastern Ukraine. I will concede that if our policy were led by Henry Kissinger rather than the current crowd a proposition along those lines would have been put in front of Putin.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    If that were all he wanted there would not have been (and still be) continuing violence in eastern Ukraine. I will concede that if our policy were led by Henry Kissinger rather than the current crowd a proposition along those lines would have been put in front of Putin.
    How is it that Russia supporting those whom seek self determination in Eastern Ukraine is different than those that seek the same in countries farther south that the US has armed to continue their violence in an attempt to realize their self determination. Also, it was agreed over twenty five years ago during negotiations between Gorbachev and Bush 1 that there would be no NATO expansion, nevertheless, there have been at least eleven. At this point, bitching about it isn't going to accomplish anything. Putin has given speeches for years complaining about this subject, and the events in the fall of 2013 appear to have been the last straw with him. Seemingly, he has laid down his non-symbolic red line, and he's not budging. Seems to me, Western powers should accept the fact that Russia won't be tolerating any further NATO or EU influence on its borders. And, it's really not unreasonable either.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US, NATO Troops Parade Near Russian Border in Estonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    How is it that Russia supporting those whom seek self determination in Eastern Ukraine is different than those that seek the same in countries farther south that the US has armed to continue their violence in an attempt to realize their self determination. Also, it was agreed over twenty five years ago during negotiations between Gorbachev and Bush 1 that there would be no NATO expansion, nevertheless, there have been at least eleven. At this point, bitching about it isn't going to accomplish anything. Putin has given speeches for years complaining about this subject, and the events in the fall of 2013 appear to have been the last straw with him. Seemingly, he has laid down his non-symbolic red line, and he's not budging. Seems to me, Western powers should accept the fact that Russia won't be tolerating any further NATO or EU influence on its borders. And, it's really not unreasonable either.
    There was never agreement not to expand NATO. And those seeking self-determination in eastern Ukraine are Russian troops.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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