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Thread: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

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    Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    U.S. Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel - WSJ

    Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Defense secretary says they should be allowed to serve openly as long as they are able to do so

    WASHINGTON—The Obama administration has sent signals in recent days that it is moving toward a decision to allow transgender service members to serve openly in the U.S. military.
    Defense Secretary Ash Carter said during a visit to Afghanistan that transgender people should be allowed to serve openly as long as they are able to do so. The White House threw its support behind Mr. Carter Monday, saying President Barack Obama supported changing the decades-old policy. Transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs from their sex at birth. Military medical standards disqualify openly transgender people from serving, under guidelines that exclude those with certain neurological, vision, learning, behavioral and psychological conditions, among others.
    There are over 15,000 transgender troops serving secretly, a 2014 report by the Palm Center, a research institute that supports ending the ban, estimated. Under Mr. Obama, the military has already integrated openly gay service members into the military ranks—a major social change to the culture of the armed forces. The president backed a congressional repeal of the so-called don’t-ask, don’t-tell law in 2010, signing the repeal in December of that year. Mr. Carter, speaking Sunday at a military town hall meeting in Kandahar, Afghanistan, was asked about transgender enlistees. “I’m very open-minded about…what their personal lives and proclivities are, provided they can do what we need them to do for us. That’s the important criteria. Are they going to be excellent service members?”
    New SecDef signals support for transgender service
    https://www.washingtonblade.com/2015...ender-service/

    I happen to agree in this regard. My personal views of one's lifestyle are meaningless, the basic question is, can you do the job and do it well? if the answer is yes then theres not much else to discuss. This is the basic concept of how many things should be.

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Damn that is a lot of trannies.

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    I'm all in favor of homophobia in the military being addressed, however this made me twitch a little:

    There are over 15,000 transgender troops serving secretly

    There are 15,000 people who don't identify with their biology. I get it. That's not a problem. Now, how are they supposed to "serve openly"? From my understanding, appearance in the military is dictated by biology. If you are a man, you can't have long hair or have earrings. I understand that these aren't worn by every transgender person, but they are worn by some. Are exceptions supposed to be made because of how a person identifies? What about women, can they wear men's uniforms if they identify as men? As I said earlier, I am all in favor of homophobia in the military being wiped out. I am all in favor of soldiers being allowed to dress as they want at home and wherever. However, there does exist a line where addressing homophobia comes into direct conflict with professionalism. This is one of those instances.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm all in favor of homophobia in the military being addressed, however this made me twitch a little:

    There are over 15,000 transgender troops serving secretly

    There are 15,000 people who don't identify with their biology. I get it. That's not a problem. Now, how are they supposed to "serve openly"? From my understanding, appearance in the military is dictated by biology. If you are a man, you can't have long hair or have earrings. I understand that these aren't worn by every transgender person, but they are worn by some. Are exceptions supposed to be made because of how a person identifies? What about women, can they wear men's uniforms if they identify as men? As I said earlier, I am all in favor of homophobia in the military being wiped out. I am all in favor of soldiers being allowed to dress as they want at home and wherever. However, there does exist a line where addressing homophobia comes into direct conflict with professionalism. This is one of those instances.
    My guess is that will simply be for the military to decide based on"ablity to serve" standards.
    I do understand what you are saying though 100%. As far as professionalism I personally dont have a concern with that because this should change anything in far as "ability to serve" though I admit 100% I'm no military expert. Im just thinking along they lines of the standards that are not based on biology which there are many involving diving gear, and hazmat/biohazard gear etc etc.

    As far as at an official ceremony would an officer (or anybody) be allowed to wear a skirt or pants if typically they were not, who cares really. Again thats for the military IMO just let them serve openly which only means they can admit it without recourse that doesnt mean they get to wear a pink tutu (Stereotypical JOKE) while participating in desert combat

    I mean i know we are talking straight opinions here but i doubt they make exceptions in the areas you are talking about that will void perfessilionsim. What did you have in mind?
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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm all in favor of homophobia in the military being addressed, however this made me twitch a little:

    There are over 15,000 transgender troops serving secretly

    There are 15,000 people who don't identify with their biology. I get it. That's not a problem. Now, how are they supposed to "serve openly"? From my understanding, appearance in the military is dictated by biology. If you are a man, you can't have long hair or have earrings. I understand that these aren't worn by every transgender person, but they are worn by some. Are exceptions supposed to be made because of how a person identifies? What about women, can they wear men's uniforms if they identify as men? As I said earlier, I am all in favor of homophobia in the military being wiped out. I am all in favor of soldiers being allowed to dress as they want at home and wherever. However, there does exist a line where addressing homophobia comes into direct conflict with professionalism. This is one of those instances.
    If they identify as a man they'd wear a mans uniform. If they identify as a women they'd wear a women's uniform. I'm not sure what's so unprofessional about that.

    As Agent J said, as long as they're doing their jobs, why would it matter.
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    If they identify as a man they'd wear a mans uniform. If they identify as a women they'd wear a women's uniform. I'm not sure what's so unprofessional about that.

    As Agent J said, as long as they're doing their jobs, why would it matter.
    What if they aren't men? Do they get to use the women's restroom because of their identification? Do women who identify as men get to violate dress codes because of their personal beliefs? If a soldier sexually identifies as a furry fetishist, can they add a tail to their uniform? The point is not to make a slippery slide out of this, the point is to draw a line between personal beliefs and professionalism. DADT was attacked because it violated a soldier's right to engage in whatever sexual beliefs he/she has without being discriminated against. This won't pass because it comes into conflict with policies that affect issues of professionalism.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What if they aren't men? Do they get to use the women's restroom because of their identification? Do women who identify as men get to violate dress codes because of their personal beliefs? If a soldier sexually identifies as a furry fetishist, can they add a tail to their uniform? The point is not to make a slippery slide out of this, the point is to draw a line between personal beliefs and professionalism. DADT was attacked because it violated a soldier's right to engage in whatever sexual beliefs he/she has without being discriminated against. This won't pass because it comes into conflict with policies that affect issues of professionalism.
    again what issues of professionalism are you referring too?
    a transgendered who is OFFICIALLY transgender as diagnosed by a doctor and has surgery or is taking hormones and is legally a female etc is a female and will conduct thier whole careers as such. Yes they will dress as a woman use women facilities and serve as a woman . . .
    that doesn't violate any professionalism.

    also not saying YOU would have a problem with it but I always laugh at the idea of the "bathroom" taboo. Not sure why one would care that a transgender man/woman use the bathroom they have transgendered too. Now open showers where everybody can see everything . . maybe but that would go both ways, im guessing the transgender man to femal will be more uncomfortable and be getting starred at 1000% more than them staring at women. Its weird to me. On average if my daughter was younger or even now the last person i worry about in the bathroom with my mother, sisters, girlfriend etc is the transgendered man who is now female.

    I think this will easily come to pass because the concerns being high are manufactured ones.
    Im not sure what your concern is? Can you be more specific and provide a reality based situation that would be one of large concern or interfere with service (which per the OP would mean they cant do the job therefore they don't get the job, they want it based on ability)
    Last edited by AGENT J; 02-24-15 at 05:36 AM.
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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What if they aren't men? Do they get to use the women's restroom because of their identification? Do women who identify as men get to violate dress codes because of their personal beliefs? If a soldier sexually identifies as a furry fetishist, can they add a tail to their uniform? The point is not to make a slippery slide out of this, the point is to draw a line between personal beliefs and professionalism. DADT was attacked because it violated a soldier's right to engage in whatever sexual beliefs he/she has without being discriminated against. This won't pass because it comes into conflict with policies that affect issues of professionalism.
    It's really more of an enlistment issue. Much of the military is predominantly southern. When you start allowing stuff like this, it could possibly cause a decline in the men and women from those states who wished to sign-up when they reach the age of requirement. Enlistment into the armed services has been on the decline for many factors for some time now, but as far as I know, what the military makes anyone wear has never been an issue.

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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by chad1389 View Post
    It's really more of an enlistment issue. Much of the military is predominantly southern. When you start allowing stuff like this, it could possibly cause a decline in the men and women from those states who wished to sign-up when they reach the age of requirement. Enlistment into the armed services has been on the decline for many factors for some time now, but as far as I know, what the military makes anyone wear has never been an issue.
    just a side note to your post

    if a person chooses not to enroll in the military because they may come across gays, transgendered, other races, genders religions etc etc my guess would be its best those types of people stay home. The military will be better without them
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    Re: Military May Allow Openly Transgender Personnel

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    just a side note to your post

    if a person chooses not to enroll in the military because they may come across gays, transgendered, other races, genders religions etc etc my guess would be its best those types of people stay home. The military will be better without them
    True.

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