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How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes [W:33]

Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

I think they should raise it to $1,000,000 an hour.

We'll all be rich!
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

I think they should raise it to $1,000,000 an hour.

We'll all be rich!

/end thread
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Why would it be more likely a person getting above minimum wage would get a raise if the minimum wage were raised to what they were getting now?

Given the higher labor costs a company would have to account for, it's more likely they wouldn't get a raise at all.

Since the minimum wage is usually the entry level, the established employees wages go up from there. Wages are a smaller and smaller % of company expenses and given the record profits in many companies, I doubt that raises will be all that painful.

In 2013, after-tax corporate profits as a share of the economy tied with their highest level on record (in 1965), while labor compensation as a share of the economy hit its lowest point since 1948. Wage growth since 1979 has not kept pace with productivity growth, resulting in falling or flat wages for most workers and big gains for corporate coffers, shareholders, executives and others at the top of the income ladder.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/wages-and-salaries-still-lag-as-corporate-profits-surge.html?_r=0
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Since the minimum wage is usually the entry level, the established employees wages go up from there. Wages are a smaller and smaller % of company expenses and given the record profits in many companies, I doubt that raises will be all that painful.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/wages-and-salaries-still-lag-as-corporate-profits-surge.html?_r=0

What about companies who are not experiencing record profits? What if they are maintaining or dwindling?
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

What about companies who are not experiencing record profits? What if they are maintaining or dwindling?

What about them? If a company cannot afford to pay it's workers, it won't last long no matter what the wages. Since when is the health of failing companies the only concern? Perhaps you want more bailouts?
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Since the minimum wage is usually the entry level, the established employees wages go up from there. Wages are a smaller and smaller % of company expenses and given the record profits in many companies, I doubt that raises will be all that painful.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/wages-and-salaries-still-lag-as-corporate-profits-surge.html?_r=0

Thank you for your opinion. However, I don't see how a change makes other wage increases automatic. I see lots lots of memes about record profits, etc., but who cares about that? Why would other wages go up? Why wouldn't it just end up being parity across the board?
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

What about them? If a company cannot afford to pay it's workers, it won't last long no matter what the wages. Since when is the health of failing companies the only concern? Perhaps you want more bailouts?

No, I don't want more bailouts. If a company was surviving, you may kill it by raising its personnel costs. When that company fails, their portion of the market will go to a larger company who will more than likely not higher those people. Overall reducing jobs and making larger corporations. Is that what you want, companies that can't fail and reduced jobs?

I think using the statement that companies are making record profits therefore the raise in minimum wage will be painless doesn't take into account the 66% of America which does not work for a large corporation.
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Companies can not simply raise prices because they want to. The incidence of the cost will be partially borne by the market and partially borne by the employer. On the flip side, putting pay in the hands of workers means putting more money out into the economy as low income workers spend nearly 100% of her income, thus it will translate to more sales of products.


no....the employers will not just EAT the difference

they will cut jobs, cut services, and reduce any other expense possible to cover

and then they will raise prices....period

if you think any different, you arent in business, or wont be for long
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

You each could use a course in economics. Prices are set by the market; not by the supplier of the product. The ability of a player in the market to change prices is governed by a concept known as price elasticity. To the degree the commodity / product is high inelastic, such as oil, the companies can pass costs along and not bear as much of the cost themselves. To the extent the commodity / product is highly elastic, then they have little latitude to off-load costs in the form of price increases and eat more of the cost themselves. Much of the travel industry, particularly airlines, have a high degree of price elasticity.

Price elasticity of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Price Elasticity of Demand

Now granted, in inefficient markets with oligopolistic participants, there is generally less price elasticity than in a free market.... but, generally less does not mean that companies can dictate prices.

Companies already set prices to maximize revenue based upon what the market will bear. If companies could simply dictate the price, they would naturally just charge more. But, they can't, so they don't.


if you change the COST of labor, they will change their prices

they have to.....there is no other place for it to come out of

do you own or manage a business?

i would assume not....i would assume you are in government, or education in some format

most businesses that employ minimum wage workers are small companies

little drug stores, car washes, food joints

low margins high failure rate businesses......

the owner is entitled to a return on his/her investment

increasing his/her labor cost has to come from somewhere
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

`
All I needed to see in your first link was this phrase; "Research conducted by the Heritage Foundation in 2003 found..." The Heritage Foundation is so ideologically biased that the only people that take it seriously are conservatives and the TP. I'll pass.

Now, on the second think, under "About us" and "Advocacy" I found this: " Our mission is to defend the right of small business owners to run their businesses without undue government interference...." More right wing propaganda."

Please find sources like mine that are not associated with political ideology.

and your sources are better?

lmao

Background

A fundamental promise of America is that work will be a ladder to economic opportunity and an anchor of economic security for working families. But that promise has unraveled over the past three decades. Globalization has combined with domestic policy choices to yield an economy that creates too many low-wage jobs and not nearly enough good ones. Lax enforcement of workers' rights, increased subcontracting and misclassification of employees as independent contractors, and failed immigration policies have heightened insecurity for all workers. Inequality has grown to historic levels, the middle class is imperiled, and many fear our best days are behind us.

The National Employment Law Project (NELP) responds by working to restore the promise of economic opportunity in the 21st century economy. In partnership with national, state and local allies, we promote policies and programs that create good jobs, strengthen upward mobility, enforce hard-won worker rights, and help unemployed workers regain their economic footing through improved benefits and services.

Read more about NELP's recent work in our 2013 Annual Report.

NELP works from the ground up to build change. Our model is to develop and test new policies at the state and local level, then scale them up to spur change at the national level. We partner with strong advocacy networks, grounded in the full range of stakeholders - grassroots groups and national organizations, worker centers and unions, policymakers and think tanks. With our staff of lawyers, policy experts and researchers, we provide the following:

In-depth legal and policy analysis, developing innovative strategies to create good jobs, improve working conditions and bolster economic security;

Rigorous empirical research, documenting key trends in the economy and spelling out effective solutions;

Expert legal advice and technical assistance, helping advocates craft viable policies in light of legal restrictions;

Strategic leadership in coalitions, bringing together diverse constituencies to pursue common goals;

Communications, public education and messaging, shining a spotlight on the struggles of today's working families and helping to increase understanding of key economic problems and viable policy solutions; and

Capacity building through dissemination of policy and research reports, hosting conferences, and student training.

NELP has offices around the country and programs that touch the lives of workers across the economic spectrum. We welcome your inquiries and participation.

http://www.nelp.org/index.php/content/content_about_us/background/


its a union loving leftist organization.....

not exactly unbiased in it's opinions
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

America should return to the days of company housing where the workers lived in company houses, shopped in company stores and were paid in company tokens. Fewer problems, little bickering over money, no long drives to shopping mall where we could be killed by ISIS, no worries about someone hacking in to your bank account or credit cards, noting in your homes to worry thieves will come in and steal. Sounds pretty good does it not? Think of it, we could all be exactly the same ending all race and class and social disputes. Heck, we could eventually marry within our own families.
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Thank you for your opinion. However, I don't see how a change makes other wage increases automatic. I see lots lots of memes about record profits, etc., but who cares about that? Why would other wages go up? Why wouldn't it just end up being parity across the board?

For the same reason that some get more than the minimum now, to keep them from losing employees with valuable experience.
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

For the same reason that some get more than the minimum now, to keep them from losing employees with valuable experience.

That might happen I suppose. But, the average small business, which represents that vast majority of employers, probably is going to have a difficult time handling such a big increase. Do you know how much revenue needs to be generated to create the additional profit needed to cover the higher wages?
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

and your sources are better? lmaoA fundamental promise of America is that work will be a ladder to economic opportunity and an anchor of economic security for working families. But that promise has unraveled over the past three decades. Globalization has combined with domestic policy choices to yield an economy that creates too many low-wage jobs and not nearly enough good ones. Lax enforcement of workers' rights, increased subcontracting and misclassification of employees as independent contractors, and failed immigration policies have heightened insecurity for all workers. Inequality has grown to historic levels, the middle class is imperiled, and many fear our best days are behind us.
The National Employment Law Project (NELP) responds by working to restore the promise of economic opportunity in the 21st century economy. In partnership with national, state and local allies, we promote policies and programs that create good jobs, strengthen upward mobility, enforce hard-won worker rights, and help unemployed workers regain their economic footing through improved benefits and services.Read more about NELP's recent work in our 2013 Annual Report. NELP works from the ground up to build change. Our model is to develop and test new policies at the state and local level, then scale them up to spur change at the national level. We partner with strong advocacy networks, grounded in the full range of stakeholders - grassroots groups and national organizations, worker centers and unions, policymakers and think tanks. With our staff of lawyers, policy experts and researchers, we provide the following: In-depth legal and policy analysis, developing innovative strategies to create good jobs, improve working conditions and bolster economic security;Rigorous empirical research, documenting key trends in the economy and spelling out effective solutions;Expert legal advice and technical assistance, helping advocates craft viable policies in light of legal restrictions;Strategic leadership in coalitions, bringing together diverse constituencies to pursue common goals;Communications, public education and messaging, shining a spotlight on the struggles of today's working families and helping to increase understanding of key economic problems and viable policy solutions; andCapacity building through dissemination of policy and research reports, hosting conferences, and student trainingNELP has offices around the country and programs that touch the lives of workers across the economic spectrum. We welcome your inquiries and participation.National Employment Law Projectts a union loving leftist organization.....not exactly unbiased in it's opinions
`
Thank you for posting things from my link. I'm not sure why you posted then because I already read the under the "about us" tab. However, you left out the part where the NELP has teamed up with the "Raise The Minimum Wage" organization. Their goals are honorable and laudable.

You seem to be making a fuss over "leftist unions", neither group mentioned ANYTHING about unions. I'm darn curious as to where the leftist unions come into play or is this just another example of seeing things that aren't there?
`
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

if you change the COST of labor, they will change their prices

they have to.....there is no other place for it to come out of

do you own or manage a business?

i would assume not....i would assume you are in government, or education in some format

most businesses that employ minimum wage workers are small companies

little drug stores, car washes, food joints

low margins high failure rate businesses......

the owner is entitled to a return on his/her investment

increasing his/her labor cost has to come from somewhere

Your impressions of how things work does not equate to how things actually work. Again, I suggest you take an economics course.

I do own and manage a business. Apparently you do not, or you would understand that while you may try to pass cost increases along, it isn't that simple. The market caps your price. You have to work within what the market will bear. You will be able to pass some, but rarely, if ever, can you pass all cost increases along...
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Your impressions of how things work does not equate to how things actually work. Again, I suggest you take an economics course.

Instead of taking gratuitous pot shots, why don't you bother proving your point.... if you can.
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Instead of taking gratuitous pot shots, why don't you bother proving your point.... if you can.

Chase this back a few posts, you will see I posted an explanation of price elasticity AND cross referenced it. You will note that I indeed backed up my assertions against the others that are simply shouting their impressions. Where is the support / cross research of their impressions? Non-existent because many of their impressions are just flat out wrong.

My point is entirely about price theory from micro economics; their point is what's in their heads, which apparently is devoid of any understanding of real economics.
 
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Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

if you change the COST of labor, they will change their prices

they have to.....there is no other place for it to come out of

do you own or manage a business?

i would assume not....i would assume you are in government, or education in some format

most businesses that employ minimum wage workers are small companies

little drug stores, car washes, food joints

low margins high failure rate businesses......

the owner is entitled to a return on his/her investment

increasing his/her labor cost has to come from somewhere

Then why do most small business's support raising the MW to $10.10? It is not small business that is paying the lobbyists to fight te increase either.

Myth: Small business owners can't afford to pay their workers more, and therefore don't support an increase in the minimum wage.
Not true: A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage to $10.10. Small business owners believe that a higher minimum wage would benefit business in important ways: 58% say raising the minimum wage would increase consumer purchasing power. 56% say raising the minimum wage would help the economy. In addition, 53% agree that with a higher minimum wage, businesses would benefit from lower employee turnover, increased productivity and customer satisfaction.
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

You are also wrong about the number of low wage workers employeed by large corporations. It's 66% of them.

 The majority (66 percent) of low-wage workers are not employed by small businesses, but rather by
large corporations with over 100 employees;
 The 50 largest employers of low-wage workers have largely recovered from the recession and most are
in strong financial positions: 92 percent were profitable last year; 78 percent have been profitable for
the last three years; 75 percent have higher revenues now than before the recession; 73 percent have
higher cash holdings; and 63 percent have higher operating margins (a measure of profitability).
 Top executive compensation averaged $9.4 million last year at these firms, and they have returned
$174.8 billion to shareholders in dividends or share buybacks over the past five years.

http://nelp.3cdn.net/e555b2e361f8f734f4_sim6btdzo.pdf
 
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Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

what you are saying is--- you didn't read the article.

the issue is can states prohibit their cities from setting MW higher than state establishes.

but boy, you had your copy-pasta non-germane troll response ready. kudos. i guess.


:lamo
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

`
Thank you for posting things from my link. I'm not sure why you posted then because I already read the under the "about us" tab. However, you left out the part where the NELP has teamed up with the "Raise The Minimum Wage" organization. Their goals are honorable and laudable.

You seem to be making a fuss over "leftist unions", neither group mentioned ANYTHING about unions. I'm darn curious as to where the leftist unions come into play or is this just another example of seeing things that aren't there?
`


NELP works from the ground up to build change. Our model is to develop and test new policies at the state and local level, then scale them up to spur change at the national level. We partner with strong advocacy networks, grounded in the full range of stakeholders - grassroots groups and national organizations, worker centers and unions, policymakers and think tanks. With our staff of lawyers, policy experts and researchers, we provide the following:
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Your impressions of how things work does not equate to how things actually work. Again, I suggest you take an economics course.

I do own and manage a business. Apparently you do not, or you would understand that while you may try to pass cost increases along, it isn't that simple. The market caps your price. You have to work within what the market will bear. You will be able to pass some, but rarely, if ever, can you pass all cost increases along...


i manage a 110 million dollar company.....with 145 employees

you may like taking it up the arse, but most of us that manage/own businesses do it for money

we may love what we do, but we wouldnt do it if we werent getting paid

if my labor rates increase, i will pass it along in one way or another

either through reduced benefits to workers, less workers, or price increases to customers

but my bottom line isnt changing because some idiot in washington decides that he wants to give away my money

my profit, and the owners isnt changing because of some legislation passed by numbskulls who couldnt run a business if their life depended on it
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

Then why do most small business's support raising the MW to $10.10? It is not small business that is paying the lobbyists to fight te increase either.

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

You are also wrong about the number of low wage workers employeed by large corporations. It's 66% of them.



http://nelp.3cdn.net/e555b2e361f8f734f4_sim6btdzo.pdf


yes....66% of MW workers work for large compamies

that means 34% work for small mom and pop operations

and most of those earn much less than 100k annually

but sure, lets take money out of their pocket because you got a hard on for mcdonalds and walmart

take a freaking look at any small town usa....look at the shops that line the main streets

you think those employees can afford for those businesses to go under because someone in DC thinks the poor arent making enough?

you guys better think about what you are doing......34% work for mom and pops......that is a lot of businesses

most have very small margins, and arent rolling in the dough

do you want them to close? because that is where you are heading
 
Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

i manage a 110 million dollar company.....with 145 employees

you may like taking it up the arse, but most of us that manage/own businesses do it for money

we may love what we do, but we wouldnt do it if we werent getting paid

if my labor rates increase, i will pass it along in one way or another

either through reduced benefits to workers, less workers, or price increases to customers

but my bottom line isnt changing because some idiot in washington decides that he wants to give away my money

my profit, and the owners isnt changing because of some legislation passed by numbskulls who couldnt run a business if their life depended on it

Again, I am sorry you don't understand economics and price theory, but businesses can not always preserve the bottom line. If they could, businesses would never lose money or have disappointing earnings and their stock prices would never fall. Again, your ability to pass costs along in the form of price increases depends entirely on the price elasticity of underlying product; your ability to cut benefits is based entirely on the other options your employees have; your ability to cut staff depends entirely on a) how over staffed you are and b) whether fewer employees will get the job done or seek other options for themselves.

You sir, are the one speaking out of your arse because you are talking entirely from your personal impressions of the world and not one iota from fact. (What exactly do you manage in this $100M company?) Offer up some credible third party support for assertions or stand down. Merely sharing your personal anecdotes over and over again is not debate; its an intellectual logjam.

Here is another article about companies inability to simply pass costs along...

http://foundationsofecon.blogspot.com/2011/06/businesses-cannot-simply-pass-on-taxes.html

Again, so we are clear, companies can simply raise prices, but the market may not buy; companies can cut benefits, but the worker may walk; companies can cut workers, but the job may not get done. The reality is, likely all four pressure points will get used (raise price somewhat; bump benefits somewhat; cut a few workers; eat some of the cost).
 
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