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Thread: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes [W:33]

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I accept your resignation and inability to discuss the topic. No need to give up the subject twice. I get it. You can't discuss the subject without the fallacy of attacking the sources, both of which are small business focused. I'm sorry for your loss.
    `
    You don't understand what a fallacy is. A fallacy is the use of poor, or invalid, reasoning for the construction of an argument, Checking out whether a source is biased is NOT an argumentative fallacy. Fact is, in debate, it's a necessity....but we're not formal here. I have an academic list of fallacies here. Feel free to look through it and point out what fallacy I violated...you wouldn't find one. Most arguments reference facts to support conclusions. But an argument is only as strong as its weakest link. If the facts supporting an argument are erroneous, so will be the argument. Critical thinking skills demands looking for information sources which are credible, unbiased, and accurate. The "Heritage Foundation" is a biased as they come and your second source has adopted the right wing canard that government regulations that are in place to safeguard the public are unnecessary.

    Both are very weak sources.

    If you are unable to present credible, unbiased, and accurate sources then it's your failure. It is perfectly logical and appropriate for a person to ask;

    • Does the information source have the necessary qualifications or level of understanding to make the claim (conclusion)?
    • Does the source have a reputation for accuracy?
    • Does the source have a motive for being inaccurate or overly biased?
    • Are there any reasons for questioning the honesty or integrity of the source?

    I would invite you to read my sources and offer a rebuttal as to their accuracy, bias and credibility but you haven't even read them and again, that's your problem.

    I will state again, the arguments the conservatives/TP bring up against the raising of the minimum wage are false, especially the lie that it will hurt small businesses. I asked for proof from you and you supplied ideological talking points.

    Again, please provide unbiased proof.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    You don't understand what a fallacy is.
    Actually I do. Again, sorry you cannot discuss the topic without attacking the source, otherwise known as ad hominem. Here's a link for your education, since I'm expecting I will be teaching you going forward given your lack of basic understanding.

    Logical Fallacies 101: Ad Hominem (Attack the Source) - by Steve Watts - Newsvine

    Now... back to the subject at hand, do you have any factual verifiable evidence to dispute the links I've provided or shall you continue on with the senseless ad hominem attacks against the information and facts provided? Doing so could be considered trolling... which I would suggest you avoid.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes [W:33]

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes | US news | The Guardian






    ALEC strikes again! Who cares what city residents vote for! Race to the bottom and permanent poverty FTW
    So. What the hell is wrong with leaving these types decisions at the state level? That way each state can make rational decisions based on that respective states economic, unemployment and cost of living environs. If conservative states, due to conservative lobbying efforts, don't increase the minimum wage, the bottom chase higher minimum wages and move to liberal utopias. Everyone wins
    The Gruber-crat is strong in this one!

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Actually I do. Again, sorry you cannot discuss the topic without attacking the source, otherwise known as ad hominem. Here's a link for your education, since I'm expecting I will be teaching you going forward given your lack of basic understanding.Logical Fallacies 101: Ad Hominem (Attack the Source) - by Steve Watts - NewsvineNow... back to the subject at hand, do you have any factual verifiable evidence to dispute the links I've provided or shall you continue on with the senseless ad hominem attacks against the information and facts provided? Doing so could be considered trolling... which I would suggest you avoid.
    `
    ~~~~~~
    Last edited by Paxaeon; 02-25-15 at 04:24 AM.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Actually I do. Again, sorry you cannot discuss the topic without attacking the source, otherwise known as ad hominem. Here's a link for your education, since I'm expecting I will be teaching you going forward given your lack of basic understanding.Logical Fallacies 101: Ad Hominem (Attack the Source) - by Steve Watts - NewsvineNow... back to the subject at hand, do you have any factual verifiable evidence to dispute the links I've provided or shall you continue on with the senseless ad hominem attacks against the information and facts provided? Doing so could be considered trolling... which I would suggest you avoid.
    `
    `

    That's twice you are wrong. At no time did I attack you or your character. I questioned the accuracy, legitimacy, and bias of your sources. You are confusing yourself as the 'source" when in fact I am questioning the "sources" or links you claim that validate your thesis.

    a) An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. (source)
    b) A debater commits the Ad Hominem Fallacy when he introduces irrelevant personal premisses about his opponent. Such red herrings may successfully distract the opponent or the audience from the topic of the debate. (source)
    c) Ad hominem (Latin) means “against the man”. As the name suggests, it is a literary term that involves commenting on or against an opponent to undermine him instead of his arguments. (source)
    d)
    Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack. (source)

    Your source for a definition of an ad hominem comes from a gentleman named Steve Watts on Newsvine. He gives his opinions on fallacies. I checked up on the name "Steve Watts" to confirm his legitimacy as an argumentative theorist, lingusitics expert or college professor and found nothing. You seen to have a penchant for cherry picking people and sources that conform to your ideological narrative instead of providing objective statements. His opinions, especially without citations, are no better than anyone's opinions.

    Evaluating an opponent's sources (Evaluating Internet Research Sources) is an inherent and legitimate facet of argumentation, whether you accept that or not. Rather than defend the "Heritage Foundation" as an unbiased source, you are crying that I am attacking you (ad Hominem), which in itself is a "red herring".

    This isn't "all about you" or your character or beliefs. It's about providing unbiased facts, from objective, legitimate and credible sources in an argument. Your failure to adequately prove your thesis by misdirecting my arguments is your problem, not mine.
    Last edited by Paxaeon; 02-25-15 at 05:15 AM.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    All I needed to see in your first link was this phrase; "Research conducted by the Heritage Foundation in 2003 found..." The Heritage Foundation is so ideologically biased that the only people that take it seriously are conservatives and the TP. I'll pass.

    Now, on the second think, under "About us" and "Advocacy" I found this: " Our mission is to defend the right of small business owners to run their businesses without undue government interference...." More right wing propaganda."

    Please find sources like mine that are not associated with political ideology.
    Pretty hilarious post from someone that used a labor organization and an Internet poll to "prove" his point.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Pretty hilarious post from someone that used a labor organization and an Internet poll to "prove" his point.
    `
    It obviously doesn't take much to amuse you and as to your reading skills, I'm not a "his."

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    It obviously doesn't take much to amuse you and as to your reading skills, I'm not a "his."
    Pretty hilarious post from someone that used a labor organization and an Internet poll to "prove" HER point.

    Happy now ??

    And the level of your hypocrisy is not affected by your gender.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon

    That's twice you are wrong. At no time did I attack you or your character.
    That's yes ANOTHER fallacy example - VERY GOOD! I never claimed you attacked my character I specifically stated and linked to ad hominem as an attack on the SOURCES provided. Apparently not only didn't you read my previous post, you ignored the link I provided which clearly states attacking the source as the problem. See, by you mischaracterizing my previous post, you've now created what is called a STRAWMAN fallacy - Congratulations! No, I never claimed you attacked my character... but you are now the only one claiming that and a nice strawman indeed.

    Here's more education for you about logical fallacy since now you've made the mistake twice --- so you were previously projecting logical fallacy onto me when in actuality your previous posts.

    Logical Fallacies» Straw Man Fallacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon
    I questioned the accuracy, legitimacy, and bias of your sources.
    Yet you provided no foundation for those questions other than the source itself. You provided no refutation of the claims in either link, only the source itself. Therefore, your logical fallacy problem. If you wish to refute a source, then you need to do so with verifiable evidence that is not just factual but convincing. When can I expect that happen?

    It's also very precious you want to now argue the definition of ad hominem but you can do that with yourself on your own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon
    Evaluating an opponent's sources (Evaluating Internet Research Sources) is an inherent and legitimate facet of argumentation, whether you accept that or not. Rather than defend the "Heritage Foundation" as an unbiased source, you are crying that I am attacking you (ad Hominem), which in itself is a "red herring".
    It is if you provide legitimate verifiable evidence that contradicts the facts presented. It's not enough to simply state "Mother Jones" is a hack site (which it is) but the facts within the article have to be refuted in order to lend credibility to such an opinion. Because you cannot find a Steve C Watts on an internet search that states what you want it to state is not verifiable evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon
    This isn't "all about you" or your character or beliefs. It's about providing unbiased facts, from objective, legitimate and credible sources in an argument. Your failure to adequately prove your thesis by misdirecting my arguments is your problem, not mine.
    Actually this is about the REAL topic at hand, which you may not have noticed is, Minimum Wage hikes.

    Please do try to speak to the topic at hand.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I don't want a minimum wage hike. I'm making above minimum, and raises would put me back on minimum wage. How does that benefit me?
    LOL Why does it matter to you whether what you make is minimum wage or not? You still make the same money. You also will be more likely to get a raise if the minimum is raised to what you make now.

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