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Thread: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes [W:33]

  1. #91
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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Your impressions of how things work does not equate to how things actually work. Again, I suggest you take an economics course.
    Instead of taking gratuitous pot shots, why don't you bother proving your point.... if you can.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Instead of taking gratuitous pot shots, why don't you bother proving your point.... if you can.
    Chase this back a few posts, you will see I posted an explanation of price elasticity AND cross referenced it. You will note that I indeed backed up my assertions against the others that are simply shouting their impressions. Where is the support / cross research of their impressions? Non-existent because many of their impressions are just flat out wrong.

    My point is entirely about price theory from micro economics; their point is what's in their heads, which apparently is devoid of any understanding of real economics.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 02-25-15 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    if you change the COST of labor, they will change their prices

    they have to.....there is no other place for it to come out of

    do you own or manage a business?

    i would assume not....i would assume you are in government, or education in some format

    most businesses that employ minimum wage workers are small companies

    little drug stores, car washes, food joints

    low margins high failure rate businesses......

    the owner is entitled to a return on his/her investment

    increasing his/her labor cost has to come from somewhere
    Then why do most small business's support raising the MW to $10.10? It is not small business that is paying the lobbyists to fight te increase either.

    Myth: Small business owners can't afford to pay their workers more, and therefore don't support an increase in the minimum wage.
    Not true: A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage to $10.10. Small business owners believe that a higher minimum wage would benefit business in important ways: 58% say raising the minimum wage would increase consumer purchasing power. 56% say raising the minimum wage would help the economy. In addition, 53% agree that with a higher minimum wage, businesses would benefit from lower employee turnover, increased productivity and customer satisfaction.
    http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

    You are also wrong about the number of low wage workers employeed by large corporations. It's 66% of them.

     The majority (66 percent) of low-wage workers are not employed by small businesses, but rather by
    large corporations with over 100 employees;
     The 50 largest employers of low-wage workers have largely recovered from the recession and most are
    in strong financial positions: 92 percent were profitable last year; 78 percent have been profitable for
    the last three years; 75 percent have higher revenues now than before the recession; 73 percent have
    higher cash holdings; and 63 percent have higher operating margins (a measure of profitability).
     Top executive compensation averaged $9.4 million last year at these firms, and they have returned
    $174.8 billion to shareholders in dividends or share buybacks over the past five years.
    http://nelp.3cdn.net/e555b2e361f8f734f4_sim6btdzo.pdf
    Last edited by iguanaman; 02-25-15 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    what you are saying is--- you didn't read the article.

    the issue is can states prohibit their cities from setting MW higher than state establishes.

    but boy, you had your copy-pasta non-germane troll response ready. kudos. i guess.

    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    Thank you for posting things from my link. I'm not sure why you posted then because I already read the under the "about us" tab. However, you left out the part where the NELP has teamed up with the "Raise The Minimum Wage" organization. Their goals are honorable and laudable.

    You seem to be making a fuss over "leftist unions", neither group mentioned ANYTHING about unions. I'm darn curious as to where the leftist unions come into play or is this just another example of seeing things that aren't there?
    `

    NELP works from the ground up to build change. Our model is to develop and test new policies at the state and local level, then scale them up to spur change at the national level. We partner with strong advocacy networks, grounded in the full range of stakeholders - grassroots groups and national organizations, worker centers and unions, policymakers and think tanks. With our staff of lawyers, policy experts and researchers, we provide the following:
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Your impressions of how things work does not equate to how things actually work. Again, I suggest you take an economics course.

    I do own and manage a business. Apparently you do not, or you would understand that while you may try to pass cost increases along, it isn't that simple. The market caps your price. You have to work within what the market will bear. You will be able to pass some, but rarely, if ever, can you pass all cost increases along...

    i manage a 110 million dollar company.....with 145 employees

    you may like taking it up the arse, but most of us that manage/own businesses do it for money

    we may love what we do, but we wouldnt do it if we werent getting paid

    if my labor rates increase, i will pass it along in one way or another

    either through reduced benefits to workers, less workers, or price increases to customers

    but my bottom line isnt changing because some idiot in washington decides that he wants to give away my money

    my profit, and the owners isnt changing because of some legislation passed by numbskulls who couldnt run a business if their life depended on it
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Then why do most small business's support raising the MW to $10.10? It is not small business that is paying the lobbyists to fight te increase either.

    http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

    You are also wrong about the number of low wage workers employeed by large corporations. It's 66% of them.



    http://nelp.3cdn.net/e555b2e361f8f734f4_sim6btdzo.pdf

    yes....66% of MW workers work for large compamies

    that means 34% work for small mom and pop operations

    and most of those earn much less than 100k annually

    but sure, lets take money out of their pocket because you got a hard on for mcdonalds and walmart

    take a freaking look at any small town usa....look at the shops that line the main streets

    you think those employees can afford for those businesses to go under because someone in DC thinks the poor arent making enough?

    you guys better think about what you are doing......34% work for mom and pops......that is a lot of businesses

    most have very small margins, and arent rolling in the dough

    do you want them to close? because that is where you are heading
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: How a powerful rightwing lobby is plotting to stop minimum wage hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i manage a 110 million dollar company.....with 145 employees

    you may like taking it up the arse, but most of us that manage/own businesses do it for money

    we may love what we do, but we wouldnt do it if we werent getting paid

    if my labor rates increase, i will pass it along in one way or another

    either through reduced benefits to workers, less workers, or price increases to customers

    but my bottom line isnt changing because some idiot in washington decides that he wants to give away my money

    my profit, and the owners isnt changing because of some legislation passed by numbskulls who couldnt run a business if their life depended on it
    Again, I am sorry you don't understand economics and price theory, but businesses can not always preserve the bottom line. If they could, businesses would never lose money or have disappointing earnings and their stock prices would never fall. Again, your ability to pass costs along in the form of price increases depends entirely on the price elasticity of underlying product; your ability to cut benefits is based entirely on the other options your employees have; your ability to cut staff depends entirely on a) how over staffed you are and b) whether fewer employees will get the job done or seek other options for themselves.

    You sir, are the one speaking out of your arse because you are talking entirely from your personal impressions of the world and not one iota from fact. (What exactly do you manage in this $100M company?) Offer up some credible third party support for assertions or stand down. Merely sharing your personal anecdotes over and over again is not debate; its an intellectual logjam.

    Here is another article about companies inability to simply pass costs along...

    http://foundationsofecon.blogspot.co...-on-taxes.html

    Again, so we are clear, companies can simply raise prices, but the market may not buy; companies can cut benefits, but the worker may walk; companies can cut workers, but the job may not get done. The reality is, likely all four pressure points will get used (raise price somewhat; bump benefits somewhat; cut a few workers; eat some of the cost).
    Last edited by upsideguy; 02-25-15 at 08:54 PM.

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