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Thread: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America[W:649]

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If the "system" is broken and doesn't work fairly or equitably for everyone, then you should make efforts to change it.
    That's part of what being a leader is all about: identify problems, offer solutions.

    Overall, it's about having a vision (for the country) and being able to articulate same and convince those you lead to follow you. Unfortunately, too many people believe that "change" means "dismantle" when it could be as simple as "tweak, improve or modify" even if such changes means doing things differently than we've done them before.

    I think the problem too many of us have is we get stuck in our ideological view points and refuse to listen to reason or consider anyone else's suggestions that differ from our own.
    I personally believe that our nation goes through cyclical changes.
    Some are due to society saying "ENOUGH!" and demanding changes while others stem from internal workings, such as, realizing that economic policies must change if we are to stop these cycles of economic booms and busts and provide in-roads where everyone has a change to participate in our nation's prosperity. But until people get informed and learn the truth of the matter (whatever it is requiring "fixing"), nothing really changes.
    Well ... a Country that's as old as ours, is supposed to live under a Constitution as we have, and may stray from it somewhat now and then but has the machinery built in to bring it back, doesn't require a fundamental change.
    Especially a fundamental change that requires the elimination of checks & balances that has come about under this Administration.
    And whatever cyclical societal change we're experiencing doesn't warrant a fundamental change if we still intend to live by a Constitution.
    IF SOMETHING EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING.

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    Re: Giuliani, what a freak

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh I am quite familiar with polling data having worked for the Roper poll in college. People who remain in academia tend to vote Dem because they are funded publicly so all those teachers "masters" generally support the Dems leading to a silly conclusion that those with "higher education" supporting Dems must mean "smarter" people favor welfare socialism
    That's not what you stated earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The least educated people are most likely to vote Democrat
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Not really. Every election that has been tracked, HS dropouts have favored Democrats
    So, which is it? Academics or the less educated....HS drop-outs because it can't be both.

    EDIT: Just came across TD's later retort to the above...

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The most popular graduate degree in this country is a teaching masters. THe people who get them are generally not the cream of the crop of college students. Lawyers also support the Dems very strongly-even civil defense attorneys because the threat of lawsuits make them money. Those are the two most common advanced degrees. PhDs who mainly work in academic arenas which are dependent on government grants are also heavily leftist. The ivory tower appeals to the utopianistic pillow headed views of welfare socialists as well.

    People in private industry with MBAs, advanced engineering degrees or MDs are far more likely to support the GOP. what it comes down to is not "does education make you more liable to vote one way" but more-is a certain strata more likely to have government jobs or private sector jobs.

    drop outs and the groups with the least amount of education culturally have always been supporters of the Democrats
    There are quite a few things wrong with the above not the least of which is if you have a Masters Degree you're a long way from being "uneducated" or even "uninformed" about what takes place in America or its national history. Moreover, I seriously doubt lawyers will vote Democrat on the off chance they'll get lucky and win a civil law suite defending some uneducated smuck.

    Talk about putting your junk out their, getting it stepped on and then ratcheting the old party tag line back all while doubling down and grasping at straws in the process.

    Republican Administrations issue R&D grants to colleges and universities same as Democrat Administrations do. To think that grant approvals are one-sided based on party ideology is foolish. You apply for grants because you need the funding. Period.

    However, you're right that in today's economic climate bereft with a strong Conservative bent and a corporate culture led by GOP supporters it's very understandable why these corporate CEOs would vote Republican! They want the "corporate welfare" with it's many tax credits and generous tax deductions (aka, "tax loopholes") to continue. Yes, I very much understand all the "keep more of what you own/less taxes on job creators..." arguments. I just don't believe the hype as the evidence of corporate elites using "their money" to create jobs on their own without government tax incentives and the wealth will magically trickle-down to the rest of us just hasn't come true. For if such were true, why would the gap between the rich, the poor and the middle-class continue to widen? Why would there be a 1% -vs- 99%?

    DON'T BELIEVE THE GOP PROSPERITY HYPE!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-21-15 at 05:53 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  3. #263
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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    While I will agree this perception is true for both parties, I think people in general would just like to see someone who they believe has the potential of being the next leader of the free world speak his mind about the issue at hand and not hide behind one's Constitutional right to free speech. Put another way: Folks wanted Gov. Walker to step up to the plate and either agree fully with what Rudy Giuliani said OR condemn what some would consider slander against a sitting President.
    A slander Obama himself levied against a sitting President, G.W. Bush in 2008. The irony on this one is way too thick from the left.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think what got so many people - White people, in particular - pissed off (and scared) about the above is learning that Rev. Wright teaches Black theology. That doesn't make his statement wrong or incorrect. However, the perception (and perhaps rightly so) was that his comments were exclusive to how Black slaves and free Black men (people) were treated by Whites with power and influence. But if you take away the "Black -vs- White" aspect what you come away with is the truth. Anyone who has studied American history - not just Black history, but American history to which Black history is a small but significant part - understands that America does have a very checkered past where it comes to its treatment of people of color be that Black, Asian (Chinese/Japanese), Italian, Hispanic (Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican), Indian (Native American and now Asian). It's a pervasive mistreatment that many people even today refuse to fully acknowledge.

    Actually what got so many Americans suspicious is why Obama was drinking all that Wright stuff in and then kept denying it.
    And then after a quick review of his other influences such as ...

    Anne Dunham (his mom, they called her Anarchist Annie)
    Frank Marshall Davis
    Bill Ayers
    Harold Washington
    ACORN
    Harry Boyte
    Socialist Scholars Conferences
    Democrat Socialists of America
    Wright
    Pfleger
    Van Jones
    Midwest Academy
    Cornell West
    George Soros
    Saul Alinsky

    "every social proposal that we make must be couched in terms of how it will strengthen capitalism." Socialists Steve Max & Harry Boyte, a couple of Obama's community organizer mentors and Midwest Academy honchos ...
    "Pick the Target, Freeze It, Personalize It and Polarize It." - Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals.
    ... was explored, it demonstrated a great deal more about the man.

    And don't you think it's curious that his background doesn't have any counter balance to those influences?
    IF SOMETHING EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, IT EXPLAINS NOTHING.

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    A slander Obama himself levied against a sitting President, G.W. Bush in 2008. The irony on this one is way too thick from the left.
    I don't know about slander, but his entire point in that is lost. Because if it was un patriotic for Bush to double the national debt (and it is) then its un patriotic for him to have now doubled the national debt as well.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Actually what got so many Americans suspicious is why Obama was drinking all that Wright stuff in and then kept denying it.
    And then after a quick review of his other influences such as ...



    ... was explored, it demonstrated a great deal more about the man.

    And don't you think it's curious that his background doesn't have any counter balance to those influences?
    Actually, it does.

    I've read his book, "Dreams from my Father," (as well as, "Audacity of Hope" and a few others about the man) and it does illustrate that the President had a very diverse background growing up. It wasn't until after he graduated from high school and switched colleges did his social and cultural views begin to change. And while I would admit that many of the views he has concerning "a great society" didn't being to take shape until he became a Community Organizer in Chicago, his beliefs that White Privilege is, in fact, real and that minorities - of all types - did and continue to receive the short end of the stick only reinforced in his mind, I'm sure, the belief that socio-economic reforms were necessary if this country were to ever return to an "All-In" approach to national prosperity where everyone has a piece of the action and an opportunity to succeed. I find nothing wrong with that if, in deed, the great "social contract" with America has, in fact, been broken.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America[W:649]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Canada generally welcomes anyone who seeks a better life in our country. Many of the draft dodgers became Canadian citizens, even after being pardoned by Ford and Carter.

    I guess you also disparage the around 5,000 Canadians who served with the US in Vietnam during the war. I'm guessing the Americans who served with them don't dismiss them so easily.
    Very lame effort at changing the subject. You celebrated the arrival of draft dodgers and rejoiced in the fact that you'd really put one over on the Yanks. I lived in that era. I served during the Vietnam war.
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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Actually, it does.

    I've read his book, "Dreams from my Father," (as well as, "Audacity of Hope" and a few others about the man) and it does illustrate that the President had a very diverse background growing up. It wasn't until after he graduated from high school and switched colleges did his social and cultural views begin to change. And while I would admit that many of the views he has concerning "a great society" didn't being to take shape until he became a Community Organizer in Chicago, his beliefs that White Privilege is, in fact, real and that minorities - of all types - did and continue to receive the short end of the stick only reinforced in his mind, I'm sure, the belief that socio-economic reforms were necessary if this country were to ever return to an "All-In" approach to national prosperity where everyone has a piece of the action and an opportunity to succeed. I find nothing wrong with that if, in deed, the great "social contract" with America has, in fact, been broken.
    If only, like Guiliani, he'd been a draft dodger with a draft dodging mob enforcer for a father maybe we could accept him.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Canada generally welcomes anyone who seeks a better life in our country. Many of the draft dodgers became Canadian citizens, even after being pardoned by Ford and Carter.


    I guess you also disparage the around 5,000 Canadians who served with the US in Vietnam during the war. I'm guessing the Americans who served with them don't dismiss them so easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Very lame effort at changing the subject. You celebrated the arrival of draft dodgers and rejoiced in the fact that you'd really put one over on the Yanks. I lived in that era. I served during the Vietnam war.
    Well, as far as the government is concerned, you're right. Trudeau's government was decisively against the Vietnam war. However, for the average Canadian, it wasn't so clear cut. Many Canadians joined the Vietnam War and fought bravely alongside Americans. From what I know, there are even Canadians amongst the list of missing soldiers in Vietnam. Canada's military itself stayed out of the war and only served to ensure that the agreements of the Paris Treaty were observed. There are even some who received the Medal of Honor. I'm not defending the actions of the Canadian government at all, what I am saying is that they're not a reflection of Canadians in general throughout of the war. More importantly, they're not a reflection of anything other than the government's policies.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 02-21-15 at 06:43 PM.
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    Re: Giuliani, what a freak

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its hard to include people who are told by their "leaders" that a vote for Bush means another black man lynched or a "vote for Bush" means another black college gets burned down

    and if to get people to vote for you you have to offer them handouts paid for others-those of us who are forced to pay for the handouts aren't going to be very happy
    So, now it's not "people vote Democrat because they're uneducated, liberal arts instructors or predatory attorneys". Now, it's "they vote Democrat cause they fear being lynched?"

    Tell me, if their college is burned to the ground how are they suppose to get educated? Oh, that's right! They're suppose to vote Republican so their institutions of higher learning aren't destroyed by "mob violence" that can only come from the "left" all of whom are getting government handouts.

    That's my comic relief for the entire weekend right there!

    Hate to say it but if this is a snap shot of an educated American from the Right, we're doomed!
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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