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Thread: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America[W:649]

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    Re: Giuliani, what a freak

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What parts specifically? (BTW, you do know you can be POTUS and still advocate for changing some parts of the socio-economic/socio-political culture you believe have been ineffectual on balance and still love the country as a whole, right? Just checking...)
    the " guns and God" parts come immediately to mind... but he certainly doesn't have much use for any region that didn't vote for him ( though that doesn't equate to not loving them)
    it's kinda hard to say he loves these parts when they are virtually ignored, except in the cases when he decides to chastise them for their culture or beliefs.
    he tolerates them because they are a part of the larger union, which he no doubts loves.

    it's kinda like saying " i love my family"... but still having a few relatives you can't stand.

    but as I said, I think he loves the country overall.. no doubt about it.

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    re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America[W:649]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Hey, you make such an easy target. Some people might forget the welcome Canada gave to draft dodgers during the Vietnam War. I don't.
    Canada generally welcomes anyone who seeks a better life in our country. Many of the draft dodgers became Canadian citizens, even after being pardoned by Ford and Carter.

    I guess you also disparage the around 5,000 Canadians who served with the US in Vietnam during the war. I'm guessing the Americans who served with them don't dismiss them so easily.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Here's a quick quiz:
    1) Who promised to fundamentally transform the United States?
    ( ) Barack Obama
    ( ) Rudy Giuliani


    Short essay question for extra credit:
    Why would you want to fundamentally transform something you love?
    If the "system" is broken and doesn't work fairly or equitably for everyone, then you should make efforts to change it. That's part of what being a leader is all about: identify problems, offer solutions.

    Overall, it's about having a vision (for the country) and being able to articulate same and convince those you lead to follow you. Unfortunately, too many people believe that "change" means "dismantle" when it could be as simple as "tweak, improve or modify" even if such changes means doing things differently than we've done them before.

    I think the problem too many of us have is we get stuck in our ideological view points and refuse to listen to reason or consider anyone else's suggestions that differ from our own. I personally believe that our nation goes through cyclical changes. Some are due to society saying "ENOUGH!" and demanding changes while others stem from internal workings, such as, realizing that economic policies must change if we are to stop these cycles of economic booms and busts and provide in-roads where everyone has a change to participate in our nation's prosperity. But until people get informed and learn the truth of the matter (whatever it is requiring "fixing"), nothing really changes.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-21-15 at 04:10 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Giuliani, what a freak

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you said the GOP wasn't smart enough to get the blacks to vote for them
    I must be one of those stupid democrats your honor because I can't connect the dots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Interesting point. Be patient. Sometimes it takes 20 years or more.

    "... ' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme." - Jeremiah Wright as reported by ABC NEWS

    And sometimes it neeeever quite gets there.

    "Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon." - ABC NEWS
    I think what got so many people - White people, in particular - pissed off (and scared) about the above is learning that Rev. Wright teaches Black theology. That doesn't make his statement wrong or incorrect. However, the perception (and perhaps rightly so) was that his comments were exclusive to how Black slaves and free Black men (people) were treated by Whites with power and influence. But if you take away the "Black -vs- White" aspect what you come away with is the truth. Anyone who has studied American history - not just Black history, but American history to which Black history is a small but significant part - understands that America does have a very checkered past where it comes to its treatment of people of color be that Black, Asian (Chinese/Japanese), Italian, Hispanic (Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican), Indian (Native American and now Asian). It's a pervasive mistreatment that many people even today refuse to fully acknowledge.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Say what you like about Rudy but who else had the guts to stand in the rubble of 911 and think "What can this national tragedy do for ME?"
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: Giuliani, what a freak

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    His policing tactics were utterly draconian when he was mayor of NYC.
    I know the pimps and whores didn't like him much, neither did the time square porno industry. He certainly helped clean up Manhattan from a relative **** hole to something decent. Hell, I still remember seeing my first huddle of street walkin' hoes in Central Park - I don't even think we went down 42nd street nor through Columbus circle. He got results regardless of his doings in 2001 as he was mayor for 6 years before that.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the " guns and God" parts come immediately to mind... but he certainly doesn't have much use for any region that didn't vote for him ( though that doesn't equate to not loving them)
    it's kinda hard to say he loves these parts when they are virtually ignored, except in the cases when he decides to chastise them for their culture or beliefs.
    he tolerates them because they are a part of the larger union, which he no doubts loves.

    it's kinda like saying " i love my family"... but still having a few relatives you can't stand.

    but as I said, I think he loves the country overall.. no doubt about it.
    Sounds to me what you're saying is, "Hate the sin, not the sinner". Here's how I equate your above comments with this common Christian refrain...

    (Disclaimer: The following is not intended to go off tangent and rehash the issue of gay marriage or homosexuality in general. It's only an attempt to expand on quoted commentary as expressed above.)

    If I don't like what someone is doing (i.e., homosexuals) but I believe firmly in equal rights, then I'll certainly condemn the behavior (i.e., homosexuality) but fight to protect their rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" alongside their right to "equal protection under the law". I don't necessarily have to like what gays and lesbians do publicly or privately, but I do have to respect their rights to choose a life (and a lifestyle) that makes them happy and to share in that happiness with whomever they so please (as long as such is a consenting adult). The same thing could be said of the President's attempts to invoke changes in social and/or economic policies that have proven to exclude some while lifting up others. That said, I can love the ideals of capitalism that have helped make America one of, if not THE, greatest country on Earth, but I can hate the greed and underhandedness such dangerous and/or misguided economic policies have wroth unto the massive where so few have so much and so many have so little.

    There is this pervasive inequity and unfairness that has taken root in this country where so many are left behind and so few have a chance to succeed. And while there are some people who are lazy and do want handouts and believe that they are deserving of such, there are also so many more who have come to realize that "the system of things" just hasn't worked for them despite their honorable intentions and willingness to play by the rules and do good work. These are the folks who are being squeezed in the middle - the people who see the "Robin Hood Affect" in full effect - but it's their labor that makes this possible and yet it is those at the very top and the very bottom who are reaping the benefits of their efforts.

    The system needs to be changed.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-21-15 at 04:55 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You see, if one Republican said it - then there is an asinine assumption by the ignorant, that all Republicans think the same thing, hence the comment about Walker and why the media is rushing around questioning potential GOP Presidential prospects, what they think of Gulliani's comments and if they agree with it.
    While I will agree this perception is true for both parties, I think people in general would just like to see someone who they believe has the potential of being the next leader of the free world speak his mind about the issue at hand and not hide behind one's Constitutional right to free speech. Put another way: Folks wanted Gov. Walker to step up to the plate and either agree fully with what Rudy Giuliani said OR condemn what some would consider slander against a sitting President.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Rudy Giuliani: President Obama doesn’t love America

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If the "system" is broken and doesn't work fairly or equitably for everyone, then you should make efforts to change it. That's part of what being a leader is all about: identify problems, offer solutions.

    Overall, it's about having a vision (for the country) and being able to articulate same and convince those you lead to follow you. Unfortunately, too many people believe that "change" means "dismantle" when it could be as simple as "tweak, improve or modify" even if such changes means doing things differently than we've done them before.
    But to bubba's point, if you wish to 'fundamentally transform' something, how can you love that something in its current state? Do you love your Prius if you wish to fundamentally transform it into a Trailblazer? That said, I think it was foolish of Rudy to raise the issue. It might work during a campaign, but six years into his presidency it just makes Rudy look fringie

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