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Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

There isn't much to say other than in my own view, but obviously not yours, whether discrimination in the marketplace based on sexual preference is ethically or morally acceptable is not a facts and circumstances question.

So we can agree to disagree.

I don't know why any adult gives a crap about what another adult thinks of his/her bedroom preferences. The couple at the center of this story are apparently very hurt because this doctor doesn't agree with their preferences. I don't care who dislikes my blonde hair, my blue eyes, my choice of husband, my kids' clothes, what kind of car I drive, what kind of music I like, or what color my house is. Just as long as nobody doesn't provide me with what I pay for that everyone else gets for the same price that I pay.

The baby got medical care that day. This couple is pissed because the doctor doesn't like them. BFD.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

I don't know why any adult gives a crap about what another adult thinks of his/her bedroom preferences. The couple at the center of this story are apparently very hurt because this doctor doesn't agree with their preferences. I don't care who dislikes my blonde hair, my blue eyes, my choice of husband, my kids' clothes, what kind of car I drive, what kind of music I like, or what color my house is. Just as long as nobody doesn't provide me with what I pay for that everyone else gets for the same price that I pay.

The baby got medical care that day. This couple is pissed because the doctor doesn't like them. BFD.

Discrimination. BFD.

I think we understand your view pretty well!
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Discrimination. BFD.

I think we understand your view pretty well!

Discrimination:

Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".

Not quite discrimination. The baby was seen. They didn't go to the doctor to get approval of their marriage.

Not everyone is going to like you.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Discrimination:

Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".

Not quite discrimination. The baby was seen. They didn't go to the doctor to get approval of their marriage.

Not everyone is going to like you.

You're determined to miss the point, so I'll quit trying. I should have known better. My mistake.
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

No Problem..
Check...

Preference and tastes in food is hardly analogous to bigotry in the context we're (you're) using it here, agreed?
I may have overdone the benign aspect a bit. Indulge me...

I understand that, but I challenged you to provide a circumstance where one could be personally turned off by, or of not condoning of homosexuality and NOT be a bigot.
If you do not discriminate you are not a bigot. It is action that makes on, in my view at least. We all like and dislike any number of things, but it is our actions vis-a-vis people that can turn us into bigots.

Asked to join? Did you really just say that? I reject many lifestyles, and character traits in people. I choose my associates rather carefully, do you not do the same?
I do too. I was asking that in the context of being forced.

And this Doctor was making a conscientious choice to avoid associating with these lesbian parents, both personally and professionally.
No, this doctor demonstrated bigotry by declining to see a 6 days old infant, one that she initially agreed to see.

Denial or service is a very common thing.
Yes, when done for some legitimate reason, not as discrimination.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

there is no shortage of dr's willing to provide care for the children of homosexual couples, but that won't stop all the do gooders from passing more laws.

nitwits!
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

That's unfortunate. The doctor is protected by their religious beliefs and thus is allowed to refuse the patient.

Thank the universe the bible doesn't make any explicit prohibitions to other minority groups or more people would be S.0.L

S.O.L. is a bit hyperbolic, isn't it.

The couple had their feelings hurt but still walked in and saw a doctor.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

there is no shortage of dr's willing to provide care for the children of homosexual couples, but that won't stop all the do gooders from passing more laws.

nitwits!

The thing is, would you really want a doctor who doesn't want to be your doctor FORCED to be your doctor?

I know I would pass on that ...
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

That's unfortunate. The doctor is protected by their religious beliefs and thus is allowed to refuse the patient.

Thank the universe the bible doesn't make any explicit prohibitions to other minority groups or more people would be S.0.L

I was not aware that the baby was gay/lesbian because that baby is the client. It just shows the doctor is an immoral person who thinks denying care to a baby because of the sexual orientation of the parents is something that can be justified by religious beliefs.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

You're determined to miss the point, so I'll quit trying. I should have known better. My mistake.

What you want me to do is join you in the outrage that this doctor doesn't approve of the lifestyle of these women, and I won't. Not everyone has to like or associate with everyone else. The baby got care, at the same time and the same place that the original doctor was supposed to provide the care. There is nothing to see here.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

S.O.L. is a bit hyperbolic, isn't it.

The couple had their feelings hurt but still walked in and saw a doctor.

Well I suppose because fortunately people have wide variety of positions on controversial politics regarding sexuality.

But in theory, if every doctor was a devout christian it would be an issue. It's the thought of "What if American was the country most Christians want it to be" A country that does everything by the book - that holy book.

It's a scary thought.
 
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Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

What you want me to do is join you in the outrage that this doctor doesn't approve of the lifestyle of these women, and I won't. Not everyone has to like or associate with everyone else. The baby got care, at the same time and the same place that the original doctor was supposed to provide the care. There is nothing to see here.

The issues we have include:
> judging the baby for the lifestyles of the mothers
> Does this doctor also refuse to see babies of divorced parents, or single mothers, or unmarried couples? those are probably also against her religion. If she sees babies of those parents, she's a hypocrite through and through (which, of course, she can be - we're just calling her out on it)
> The mothers chose that doctor; maybe there was a reason. Was the substitute doctor as good? As knowledgeable about the circumstances?

In this case, there was another doctor; in a more rural area, there might not have been one.

No one is saying the doctor has to approve of the lifestyles of the mothers. What we are saying is that, having agreed to provide medical care to the baby, it was crappy of her to back out last minute (as far as the mothers were concerned - they had no knowledge of it till the appt).

You say there is nothing to see. We say we see a lousy doctor.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Well I suppose because fortunately people have wide variety of positions on controversial politics regarding sexuality.

But in theory, if every doctor was a devout christian it would be an issue. It's the thought of "What if American was the country most Christians want it to be" A country does everything by the book - that holy book.

It's a scary thought.

good point. What if all doctors were like this?
 
Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

It is astounding the level of denials and inability to see what this kind of discrimination can lead to.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Well I suppose because fortunately people have wide variety of positions on controversial politics regarding sexuality.

But in theory, if every doctor was a devout christian it would be an issue. It's the thought of "What if American was the country most Christians want it to be" A country that does everything by the book - that holy book.

It's a scary thought.

I think it's probably far more accurate to say what you think "most Christians want" is really what you want most Christians to want.

I suspect Christians are mostly like everyone else and have a wide variety of beliefs. I also suspect your average "devout Christian" doctor wouldn't care all that much about the sexuality of the parents. I certainly think the doctor behaved foolish but I suppose that's his right.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

I think it's probably far more accurate to say what you think "most Christians want" is really what you want most Christians to want.

I suspect Christians are mostly like everyone else and have a wide variety of beliefs. I also suspect your average "devout Christian" doctor wouldn't care all that much about the sexuality of the parents. I certainly think the doctor behaved foolish but I suppose that's his right.


What i think most Christians want is based entirely on my experiences with them as a gay man myself and also my experience with them on these forums.

It's enough evidence, anecdotal though it may be, to give credence to any misgivings that I have for a hypothetical world were everyone in power is a devout christian.

We don't all live in large populated cities. Some small towns only have a few doctors - it would be a shame for someone to be stranded in area where the only doctors who are available are legally able to refuse you service because you "lifestyle" is contrary to their dearly held beliefs.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

What i think most Christians want is based entirely on my experiences with them as a gay man myself and also my experience with them on these forums.

It's enough evidence, anecdotal though it may be, to give credence to any misgivings that I have for a hypothetical world were everyone in power is a devout christian.

We don't all live in large populated cities. Some small towns only have a few doctors - it would be a shame for someone to be stranded in area where the only doctors who are available are legally able to refuse you service because you "lifestyle" is contrary to their dearly held beliefs.

Sure but all that depends on your horribly extremist views of Christianity, so I don't think there's too much to worry about.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Sure but all that depends on your horribly extremist views of Christianity, so I don't think there's too much to worry about.

RAmfel, Bob Bayloc, Palecon, Logic man <--- only a few names is what is a very large population of extreme hateful christians that run rampant on the interwebs, the westboro baptist church, entire websites dedicated to curing gays, gay conversion therapy often run by abrahamic religious facilities, the list goes on- Yeah, you'll have to forgive me for my totally unreasonable fear of a country run by zealous Christians.

Because there is no precedence at all to go off of.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

RAmfel, Bob Bayloc, Palecon, Logic man <--- only a few names is what is a very large population of extreme hateful christians that run rampant on the interwebs, the westboro baptist church, entire websites dedicated to curing gays, gay conversion therapy often run by abrahamic religious facilities, the list goes on- Yeah, you'll have to forgive me for my totally unreasonable fear of a country run by zealous Christians.

Because there is no precedence at all to go off of.

Right.

:roll:
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Should have her license revoked... there is only one rule for doctors.. the Hippocratic oath

No, sir. Many, many physicians don't take the Hippocratic Oath (choosing an alternative oath instead) and haven't done so for over 30 years.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

Well I suppose because fortunately people have wide variety of positions on controversial politics regarding sexuality.

But in theory, if every doctor was a devout christian it would be an issue. It's the thought of "What if American was the country most Christians want it to be" A country that does everything by the book - that holy book.

It's a scary thought.
A zombie apocalypse is also a scary thought, and about as likely to occur as this scenario that you've outlined.
 
Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

RAmfel, Bob Bayloc, Palecon, Logic man <--- only a few names is what is a very large population of extreme hateful christians that run rampant on the interwebs, the westboro baptist church, entire websites dedicated to curing gays, gay conversion therapy often run by abrahamic religious facilities, the list goes on- Yeah, you'll have to forgive me for my totally unreasonable fear of a country run by zealous Christians.

Because there is no precedence at all to go off of.
Theocracies and those who advocate them are a danger to everything that is decent, civilized, rational, intelligent and desired by people any and everywhere in the world.
 
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