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Thread: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

  1. #821
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    How about a fat guy and a woman with red hair? Or two people who happen to be very tall? Or an Irishman and his Norweigian beau? How many "protected classes" do you want to create? Race has special significance in this country, which is why you all are constantly trying to piggyback on it and can't seem to argue in favor of gays without bringing up blacks.
    Ethnicity is protected (cover Irishman and Norwegian). Those others could have semi protection, depending on the state and judges.

    Doesn't have to include blacks at all. A Christian and atheist could not be refused service. A parent with cerebral palsy or downs or missing a limb or I believe unmarried, could not be refused service.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    What you did was belittle what blacks endured under a system of institutionalized racism by equating some of the most symbolic inequaties of that era with what happened to this couple.

    And yes, had the discrimination that occurred in the south amounted to a tiny handful of black couples having to go to a different florist, a different bakery, or a different pediatrician, the CRA would never have happened.
    You are trying to minimize what gays have faced, including incarceration, involuntary commitment, castration, electroshock therapy, and oppression, just for wanting to be with someone of the se sex in a consensual, intimate relationship.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No they couldn't. If an Amendment is in the Constitution, SCOTUS has to abide by that Amendment, even if it takes away a right guaranteed in another earlier Amemdment.
    Do you have a source? I dont think SCOTUS is under any obligation to accept any particular new amendment to the constitution. Rather, they can decide whether the amendment is in and of itself, constitutional.

  4. #824
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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Do you have a source? I dont think SCOTUS is under any obligation to accept any particular new amendment to the constitution. Rather, they can decide whether the amendment is in and of itself, constitutional.
    That's a new one for me.

    How is an amendment that has passed according to the requirements set forth in the Constitution unconstitutional?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Yes, there are countless people of every walk of life who in a professional situation treat others with dignity, respect and professionalism. Then there are bigots and other ignorant apologists for them who do not. Quite obvious who is on which side.
    I am not a bigot, nor am I an ignorant apologist. I do treat others with dignity and respect and wish that you would do the same. Throughout this thread you have referred to others as “morons” and "ignorant" and have frequently commented on others’ reading comprehension skills. Brush up on your own. I have posted five times on this thread, and in not one have I said anything one way or another about the issues being discussed.

    To Pete EU (Post 623), I posted, “No, sir. Many, many physicians don't take the Hippocratic Oath (choosing an alternative oath instead) and haven't done so for over 30 years.”

    You responded to this factual statement with “Can you cite one which condones declining treatment for a six days old child because of ignorant bigotry?” and I replied in Post 628, “Non sequitur and entirely irrelevant to my point.”

    You then posted the accusatory, “You tried to excuse the bigotry because she may have taken a different version or different oath as a physician. Now when asked you know any that would condone it, it becomes irrelevant or more like you are fresh out of excuses?”

    I then replied in Post 634, “Get off my ass, Prometeus. What I did was correct a factual misstatement. I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the OP; I merely corrected the very common misconception that physicians routinely take the Hippocratic Oath these days when many do not.”

    Your responding post was, “Please do not delude yourself, I have do desire to get on your ass in any way shape or form. No, you did not [correct a factual misstatement]. You attempted, but the fact is that physicians today take an oath which is for all practical purposes the equivalent of the Hippocratic oath, and not a single on condones such bigotry. So the refusal to see the infant is a clear violation of such oaths.” And you also said in response to my factual statement that “ I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the OP,” “Not directly you did not, but your attempted correction, speak volumes also.”

    Actually, it doesn't. I refuse to be sucked into a debate in which I do not wish to engage, and no amount of spinning or baiting or "inferring" will accomplish what you intend, so give it up.

    My last response to you until now was in Post 636, in which I replied, “I don't think you understand why physicians so often choose not to take the Hippocratic Oath. I'll leave it to you to research this. What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion I don't wish to have. I have made no comment on this particular physician's decision, and my sole purpose in posting on this thread was to correct a very common misconception. What your agenda is here with me I can't guess, but you need to find somebody else to bait.”

    You are determined to see what doesn’t exist because it fits with your own malignant view of others. I can’t imagine what drives you to imagine what does not exist (or to continually insult other people), but you need never infer anything from what I post. I speak plainly, and you won’t find a hidden message. Of course, you may choose to invent one because of some need of your own, but I’ve taken the time to paste every word I’ve posted on this thread to expose your contemptible duplicity.

    You have even insinuated now that I’m a bigot based on my simple and truthful statement that “what may have been lost in all these many pages is the fact that every day pediatricians do treat the children of gay couples and that this is a commonplace. Perhaps this story is news because what happened is extraordinary rather than ordinary.”

    Honi soit qui mal y pense—Evil unto him who thinks evil of it. More loosely, shame on you and your dishonorable tactics.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I am not a bigot, nor am I an ignorant apologist. I do treat others with dignity and respect and wish that you would do the same. Throughout this thread you have referred to others as “morons” and "ignorant" and have frequently commented on others’ reading comprehension skills. Brush up on your own. I have posted five times on this thread, and in not one have I said anything one way or another about the issues being discussed.

    To Pete EU (Post 623), I posted, “No, sir. Many, many physicians don't take the Hippocratic Oath (choosing an alternative oath instead) and haven't done so for over 30 years.”

    You responded to this factual statement with “Can you cite one which condones declining treatment for a six days old child because of ignorant bigotry?” and I replied in Post 628, “Non sequitur and entirely irrelevant to my point.”

    You then posted the accusatory, “You tried to excuse the bigotry because she may have taken a different version or different oath as a physician. Now when asked you know any that would condone it, it becomes irrelevant or more like you are fresh out of excuses?”

    I then replied in Post 634, “Get off my ass, Prometeus. What I did was correct a factual misstatement. I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the OP; I merely corrected the very common misconception that physicians routinely take the Hippocratic Oath these days when many do not.”

    Your responding post was, “Please do not delude yourself, I have do desire to get on your ass in any way shape or form. No, you did not [correct a factual misstatement]. You attempted, but the fact is that physicians today take an oath which is for all practical purposes the equivalent of the Hippocratic oath, and not a single on condones such bigotry. So the refusal to see the infant is a clear violation of such oaths.” And you also said in response to my factual statement that “ I have offered no opinion whatsoever on the OP,” “Not directly you did not, but your attempted correction, speak volumes also.”

    Actually, it doesn't. I refuse to be sucked into a debate in which I do not wish to engage, and no amount of spinning or baiting or "inferring" will accomplish what you intend, so give it up.

    My last response to you until now was in Post 636, in which I replied, “I don't think you understand why physicians so often choose not to take the Hippocratic Oath. I'll leave it to you to research this. What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion I don't wish to have. I have made no comment on this particular physician's decision, and my sole purpose in posting on this thread was to correct a very common misconception. What your agenda is here with me I can't guess, but you need to find somebody else to bait.”

    You are determined to see what doesn’t exist because it fits with your own malignant view of others. I can’t imagine what drives you to imagine what does not exist (or to continually insult other people), but you need never infer anything from what I post. I speak plainly, and you won’t find a hidden message. Of course, you may choose to invent one because of some need of your own, but I’ve taken the time to paste every word I’ve posted on this thread to expose your contemptible duplicity.

    You have even insinuated now that I’m a bigot based on my simple and truthful statement that “what may have been lost in all these many pages is the fact that every day pediatricians do treat the children of gay couples and that this is a commonplace. Perhaps this story is news because what happened is extraordinary rather than ordinary.”

    Honi soit qui mal y pense—Evil unto him who thinks evil of it. More loosely, shame on you and your dishonorable tactics.
    My words are also plain and I call them the way I see them, but unlike you I do not backpedal. You have had every opportunity to clarify anything that may have been misunderstood about your post, instead you chose to divert and introduce irrelevant drivel as excuses.
    When Pete called for the doctors license to be pulled you remarked that not every doctor takes the Hippocratic oath. Was that just a desperate desire to introduce irrelevant trivia into the discussion? Or the irrelevant drivel about pediatricians treating the children of gay couples? What was that supposed to add to the discussion about the bigotry of a particular doctor?
    Why can't you just garner enough integrity to admit that due to your own religious views, faith whatever you can not find it in you do condemn the act, or better yet if you can not condemn it for whatever reason and neither can you publicly condone it, why did eve bother to enter the discussion. Clearly you have brought nothing to it.
    Last edited by prometeus; 02-25-15 at 09:43 PM.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Do you have a source? I dont think SCOTUS is under any obligation to accept any particular new amendment to the constitution. Rather, they can decide whether the amendment is in and of itself, constitutional.
    That does not quite make sense. They have to make that determination based on what the Constitution is at any given time and not what they think is should be. They are the ultimate arbiters of the Constitution not its makers.
    As long as the Amendment is brought into existence by the mechanisms laid out in the Constitution, then the Amendment is constitutional. Why do you think it is so difficult to amend the Constitution? Specifically so it can not be done on a whim or recklessly. Yet I must say the we did have prohibition.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    How about a fat guy and a woman with red hair? Or two people who happen to be very tall? Or an Irishman and his Norweigian beau? How many "protected classes" do you want to create? Race has special significance in this country, which is why you all are constantly trying to piggyback on it and can't seem to argue in favor of gays without bringing up blacks.
    If you have any examples about doctors refusing treatment to the child of a couple because the woman has red hair or whatever, please do list those examples.

    Otherwise, stick to the topic and to what actually happened - a doctor refused to treat a baby because the parents were lesbian.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That's a new one for me.

    How is an amendment that has passed according to the requirements set forth in the Constitution unconstitutional?
    Because amendments propose actions and no action is automatically constitutional. Likewsie, any new amendment cannnot void right from existing amendments. If a hypothetical super majority passed an amendment legalizing slavery, disinfranchising blacks (or whites), or voiding the second amendment, such an action would still be subject to review by SCOTUS.

    I am surprised that you have difficulty with the concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    As long as the Amendment is brought into existence by the mechanisms laid out in the Constitution, then the Amendment is constitutional.
    I doubt it. Just becasue an amendment passes, does not make it constitutional- espescially of it can shown that it voids an earlier amendment. If, say a hypothetical super majority passed an amendment legalizing slavery, disinfranchising blacks (or whites), or voiding the second amendment, my guess is that such an action would still be subject to review by SCOTUS.

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Why do you think it is so difficult to amend the Constitution?
    Well, becasue it is. That aside, my contention is not whether or not it is hard to amend the constitution, just that new amendments are still subject to judicial review.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 02-26-15 at 11:41 AM.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Because amendments propose actions and no action is automatically constitutional. Likewsie, any new amendment cannnot void right from existing amendments. If a hypothetical super majority passed an amendment legalizing slavery, disinfranchising blacks (or whites), or voiding the second amendment, such an action would still be subject to review by SCOTUS.
    And you can support that with what?

    I am surprised that you have difficulty with the concept.
    What is surprising is how little you understand our Constitution.

    Well, becasue it is.
    Yea, that must be it.

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