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Thread: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Yes, they do. And what may have been lost in all these many pages is the fact that every day pediatricians do treat the children of gay couples and that this is a commonplace. Perhaps this story is news because what happened is extraordinary rather than ordinary.
    Yes, there are countless people of every walk of life who in a professional situation treat others with dignity, respect and professionalism. Then there are bigots and other ignorant apologists for them who do not. Quite obvious who is on which side.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Then there are bigots and other ignorant apologists for them who do not.
    Oh, the ironing.

    When you are a physician running your own office, you may choose which patients you will see and not see. You have no business dictating how any other doctor's office is run.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Oh, the ironing.

    When you are a physician running your own office, you may choose which patients you will see and not see. You have no business dictating how any other doctor's office is run.
    Instead of posting more ignorant drivel at least make an attempt to address the topic.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Wow, seriously? You see no "meaningful" difference between a single doctor asking a colleague to provide services for a couple versus the segregation of an entire race of people mandated under state laws?

    Unbelievable.
    If I'd wanted to compare an isolated incident to Jim Crow laws, I'd have done so. What I said was the standard - they got service, BFD - is illegitimate. And then I used some examples - A restaurant with a blacks only section, etc. If "they got service" was an appropriate standard, we could do away with much of the CRA.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Wow, seriously? You see no "meaningful" difference between a single doctor asking a colleague to provide services for a couple versus the segregation of an entire race of people mandated under state laws?

    Unbelievable.
    Try this one. Is there any meaningful difference between a mixed couple being told that the doctor that had already agreed to take their child as a patient prayed on it and found that caring for a child with mixed race parents violated his/her religious beliefs? The same situation, only difference is that instead of the parents choosing to be with someone of a gender that some in society do not approve of, the parents choose to be with someone of a race that some in society do not approve of.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Instead of posting more ignorant drivel at least make an attempt to address the topic.
    The topic is about a doctor refusing service.

    The doctor as a service provider has a right to refuse service.

    The topic is not you calling nota bene an ignorant apologist, which is what you did.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    The topic is about a doctor refusing service.

    The doctor as a service provider has a right to refuse service.

    The topic is not you calling nota bene an ignorant apologist, which is what you did.
    Actually, this is not completely true, no matter how many want to believe this. The doctor could not even with a very similar situation claim that she prayed on it and that her beliefs would not allow her to see a child with parents who were black, mixed race, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, possibly atheist (not sure about this one, would be more likely to go to the SCOTUS than the others, but would also probably still win), etc. Civil Rights Act, along with similar laws each state has in place that usually include more classifications. In fact, had one of the parents been diagnosed with something like cerebral palsy or was missing a limb, it is possible that they too would be protected from such discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, this is not completely true, no matter how many want to believe this. The doctor could not even with a very similar situation claim that she prayed on it and that her beliefs would not allow her to see a child with parents who were black, mixed race, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, possibly atheist (not sure about this one, would be more likely to go to the SCOTUS than the others, but would also probably still win), etc. Civil Rights Act, along with similar laws each state has in place that usually include more classifications. In fact, had one of the parents been diagnosed with something like cerebral palsy or was missing a limb, it is possible that they too would be protected from such discrimination.
    Nothing you have said changes my answer. Those laws are unjust.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Nothing you have said changes my answer. Those laws are unjust.
    They have been ruled as constitutional, even if you feel they are unjust, meaning that those doctors cannot legally deny service to anyone they want. They are still going to be subject to some form of punishment under the law if the people discriminated against decide to file a complaint or pursue legal action. This says that they do not in fact "have a right to refuse service", or at the very least, that right is limited.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They have been ruled as constitutional, even if you feel they are unjust, meaning that those doctors cannot legally deny service to anyone they want. They are still going to be subject to some form of punishment under the law if the people discriminated against decide to file a complaint or pursue legal action. This says that they do not in fact "have a right to refuse service", or at the very least, that right is limited.
    I said they have a right to refuse service for any reason and I meant that, because they do. When you own your own business, you have a right to give custom or not to whom you want. If you disagree with how someone else runs their business, don't go there, open your own, etc.

    Laws that violate their rights and extend federal authority beyond its actual enumerated powers do exist, but that's an example of our rights being violated, not indication that the rights do not exist.

    If you only want to talk about the current state of law, then rather than discuss any meta-notions about the appropriateness of such law, one would simply need to determine if Michigan has added homosexuals to the list of people you can't refuse service to. I don't know if that's the case or not in Michigan, but I would certainly propose tearing that list up and burning it rather than adding anyone else to it.

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