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Thread: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

  1. #481
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So insisting that a substantial group of people in the US consistently be given 2nd class and/or separate accommodations like back rows, balconies, etc isnt harmful? Constantly reinforcing that that group is less important, less a part of society, and their needs are secondary to another groups'....harmless to society?
    There is evidence to suggest that girls perform better in certain academic subjects if they are put into classrooms with only other girls. Not allowing the girls to be treated like they are "2nd class" by allowing them to be segregated at school harms society.

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    This sounds disturbing. Also, this seems odd. The infant isn't gay. How can this be allowed?
    I do not like it.
    What I found frightening is that under the AMA code of ethics, a Dr. could be the only one on duty, can, dependent upon the circumstances deny a dying patient medical attention.
    Take a quick read if you have the time.
    Post 472
    Doctors weigh morals, ethics in decisions on refusing services - amednews.com

    Take, for example, the familiar religious prohibition on blood transfusions, a critical part of the morality of Jehovah's Witnesses. While we are generally used to thinking of Witnesses who refuse blood as patients, it is less well-known that Jehovah's Witness doctors are prohibited from administering transfusions, even to patients who are non-Witnesses, and even if the blood is needed to save the patient's life.

    To my knowledge, no one defends a Jehovah's Witness doctor's right to refuse, on the basis of conscience, to administer blood to an exsanguinating non-Witness patient. Among the Witness doctors I have questioned, the consensus is to avoid being alone and on duty in any setting where patients needing transfusions might present. If necessary, they would summon another health care professional to do the procedure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who is Claudette Colvin?
    The first person to say FU to a Montgomery bus driver.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Being treated unequally is not a harm by itself. Someone telling you to move is also not a harm.
    I disagree. If I buy a ticket I expect that my ticket gets me the same privilege as anyone else who bought the ticket. I don't think anyone had more right to seats in the front of the bus than she did. By the same token, I also don't believe that she had more right to a seat in the front than anyone else either.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Disclaimer, if I owned a flower shop, bakery or was a photographer, I would be happy to work for anyone who agreed to pay, so I would be happy to build a gay cake or sell flowers for a gay wedding. I understand however why some people would be offended and not want to serve them. I also understand the legal liability associated with refusing to serve gays.

    Here's my solution. If a business owner objects to serving gays, have the gays pay for the service with a check made payable to the American Family Association, an anti gay organization. Problem solved, one way or another.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'll admit to knowing almost exactly nothing about Jehovah's Witnesses, or their beliefs. I don't know anything about what their doctors think.
    JW refuse blood transfusions as it is in direct contravention of their religious beliefs. 1 Dr on duty, emergency case arrrives, need a blood transfusion, Dr is a JW, can refuse to rovide life saving transfusion. Scary.
    That said, US & Canadian case law can have a court order issued to provide transfusions.
    Found another tidbit, which is just as disturbing.

    VM -- The Growing Abuse of Conscientious Objection, May 06 ... Virtual Mentor

    The Growing Abuse of Conscientious Objection

    Rebecca J. Cook, JD, JSD, and Bernard M. Dickens, LLB, LLM, PhD, LLD

    Physicians’ rights to refuse to participate in medical procedures that offend their conscience may be incompatible with patients’ rights to receive lawful, medically indicated treatment. Historically, the goal of medicine has been to provide care to the sick. The World Medical Association’s modern variant of the Hippocratic Oath, The Declaration of Geneva, inspires the graduating physician to pledge that, “The health of my patient will be my first consideration” [1]. For many who enter medicine, the commitment to assist their fellow human beings and pursue a path of personal salvation through this professional calling is religiously inspired. A conflict of interest can arise if the physician’s religious or other conscientious convictions are in tension with medically indicated procedures. The obvious case is therapeutic abortion, but analogous cases include contraceptive sterilization and withdrawal of life support from otherwise viable patients. Physicians who give priority to their own moral and spiritual convictions over their patients’ need and desire for medically indicated care face a conflict that needs resolution [2].
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

  7. #487
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    JW refuse blood transfusions as it is in direct contravention of their religious beliefs. 1 Dr on duty, emergency case arrrives, need a blood transfusion, Dr is a JW, can refuse to rovide life saving transfusion. Scary.
    That said, US & Canadian case law can have a court order issued to provide transfusions.
    Found another tidbit, which is just as disturbing.

    VM -- The Growing Abuse of Conscientious Objection, May 06 ... Virtual Mentor

    The Growing Abuse of Conscientious Objection

    Rebecca J. Cook, JD, JSD, and Bernard M. Dickens, LLB, LLM, PhD, LLD

    Physicians’ rights to refuse to participate in medical procedures that offend their conscience may be incompatible with patients’ rights to receive lawful, medically indicated treatment. Historically, the goal of medicine has been to provide care to the sick. The World Medical Association’s modern variant of the Hippocratic Oath, The Declaration of Geneva, inspires the graduating physician to pledge that, “The health of my patient will be my first consideration” [1]. For many who enter medicine, the commitment to assist their fellow human beings and pursue a path of personal salvation through this professional calling is religiously inspired. A conflict of interest can arise if the physician’s religious or other conscientious convictions are in tension with medically indicated procedures. The obvious case is therapeutic abortion, but analogous cases include contraceptive sterilization and withdrawal of life support from otherwise viable patients. Physicians who give priority to their own moral and spiritual convictions over their patients’ need and desire for medically indicated care face a conflict that needs resolution [2].
    I have no idea what someone whose religious beliefs prohibit him from performing a medical treatment that he is going to have to perform would go into medicine in the first place.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  8. #488
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I haven't shifted anything. I have consistently pointed out that you are wrong to say this is about forcing people to do things they don't want to because other people want them to do it.

    However, you are now shifting by pretending that this is a discussion of how laws are passed in a democratic system.
    And I will consistently point out that it is exactly about forcing people to do what they don't want to do. I can't recall you expressing that particular point in this case, but then I've only been replying to your quotes.

    The physician elected not to even see this infant or her parents, unless you are reading something different, many on this thread are saying that it is wrong and that discrimination laws should apply. Again, that is their opinion and I disagree with it.

  9. #489
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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    I do not like it.
    What I found frightening is that under the AMA code of ethics, a Dr. could be the only one on duty, can, dependent upon the circumstances deny a dying patient medical attention.
    Take a quick read if you have the time.
    Post 472
    Doctors weigh morals, ethics in decisions on refusing services - amednews.com

    Take, for example, the familiar religious prohibition on blood transfusions, a critical part of the morality of Jehovah's Witnesses. While we are generally used to thinking of Witnesses who refuse blood as patients, it is less well-known that Jehovah's Witness doctors are prohibited from administering transfusions, even to patients who are non-Witnesses, and even if the blood is needed to save the patient's life.

    To my knowledge, no one defends a Jehovah's Witness doctor's right to refuse, on the basis of conscience, to administer blood to an exsanguinating non-Witness patient. Among the Witness doctors I have questioned, the consensus is to avoid being alone and on duty in any setting where patients needing transfusions might present. If necessary, they would summon another health care professional to do the procedure.
    I guess I can't understand why a person's whose religion is against many medical procedures would want to be a doctor. Perhaps, they should be a doctor for their own small community of religious people and NOT for an emergency room where tons of different people come everyday. They should be segregated from working in certain places serving the public rather than the public and/or public's care having to be segregated. At the end of the day they are just coming for medical care not to be judged or deemed worthy of service.

  10. #490
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I disagree. If I buy a ticket I expect that my ticket gets me the same privilege as anyone else who bought the ticket. I don't think anyone had more right to seats in the front of the bus than she did. By the same token, I also don't believe that she had more right to a seat in the front than anyone else either.
    I suppose since she was taking public transport you can make the case that she was owed equal treatment, but even then being told to sit in the back of the bus is not actually a harm.

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