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Thread: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

  1. #301
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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Of course I do I used to date her...
    But why are yo making this stuff up?
    Because hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue

    tb knows that this sort of bigotry is despicable, but since the doctor is presumably a right winger, partisanship forbids her from criticizing the doctor. And so, she has to pretend that this about a doctor hurting someone's feelings, and not about discrimination. She has to pretend that it's because the doctor could provide the proper bedside manner, and not the doctor could not provide the proper bedside manner because the parents were lesbians

    She knows that if she admitted this was all because the parents were lesbians, she'd be admitting that she's condoning bigotry.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Indeed, and it does a considerable amount of harm and thus violates their oath. It also doesn't treat or cure the condition, but instead deals with the side effects of the condition.
    What condition exactly is circumcisions, which is what I was referring to, dealing with?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    By the way how do you feel about being humiliated? Does it just roll of your back, do you feel angry, even a desire to even the score?
    It's not about humiliation or any other feeling

    It's about "separate but equal". It's about "one set of providers for one group and another set for everyone else". It's about segregation.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #304
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, the refusing doctor was NOT "medically wrong". And her reason could just as well been because the parents were daredevils, or professional beggars, or never bathed. The doctor couldn't face the parents' lifestyle, so the medical group provided another doctor that could to cover this patient.
    Ack, I just posted something very similar to that. The issue here isn't that the baby was seen by her partner - it's that people are angry at the doctor because she doesn't like the gay lifestyle.

    Who cares who likes who? I didn't care about anyone's opinion on my husband when I decided to marry him. And if someone didn't want to be around me because they didn't like him, fine - I wouldn't want to be around those people either. This is nothing but an emotionally charged debate and an emotionally charged thread because people are fuming that some doctor in Michigan doesn't like 2 women who got married.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    The lgbt set seems to be going through that same asshole phase that some smokers who have recently quit go through where they smell smoke everywhere and are offended by it.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What condition exactly is circumcisions, which is what I was referring to, dealing with?
    That isn't what he was referring to. As for your argument, male circumcision has been proven to be harmful to the patient and unnecessary. It is very much a breach of the oath for a doctor to circumcise a newborn baby boy.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You are obviously not reading my posts at all. I never said that. (bold, like in other post)

    However the point I'm trying to make is....what if it was an emergency situation? "Hypothetical" does not mean "without value." This incident happened...is it your position that it would never happen in a life or death situation?
    Your questions seems perfectly reasonable to me. I think we are talking about a principle here - do doctors have an obligation to treat patients without regard to their sexual orientation? If the answer is an unequivocal "NO!" then that answer applies in cases of emergency, i.e. in the ER, when there might not be another doctor within 100 miles, there might not be another doctor covered by the person's insurance, etc.

    If the answer is, "No, but.... " then the relevant next question is 'what are the exceptions?' No, they're not obligated to in cases where the child is not at risk BUT would be in the ER. Or they would not be obligated so long as another doctor was available for this child, but if she was the only physician within 100 miles, she DOES have an obligation or at least a higher obligation to ignore sexual orientation of the parents. Etc.

    I thought about it and in this case it worked out well for everyone, IMO. I wouldn't want to see a doctor who held me and/or my spouse in contempt in some ways. So the couple have a doctor who respects them and their child - all that's good. But the problem in saying it worked out fine here, so there is no issue with physicians declining to treat LGBT patients, is that if this is based on principle and not the results IN THIS CASE, then the principle has to apply when it will or could cause substantial harm to the couple or their child. Or else people should be willing to identify the exceptions to the principle.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Ack, I just posted something very similar to that. The issue here isn't that the baby was seen by her partner - it's that people are angry at the doctor because she doesn't like the gay lifestyle.
    She specifically stated that it was because she objected on religious grounds. And that is recognized and protected under the law. Not liking an imaginary lifestyle is not protected.

    It's not about whether or not the kid was just handed off to a partner. It's about doctors being allowed to refuse treatment based on their religious beliefs.

    That's the whole thing, in a nutshell. People like yourself choosing to minimize it just because there was a safety net (partner) for the child in this case by no means indicates that there will be for other situations where doctors refuse service due to their religious beliefs. So the legitimacy of her actions will be examined by the courts so that laws or policies can be put in place to address such situations in the future.

    Feel free to ignore the part in blue. You already said that you dont feel it's relevant to the OP. I wrote it because it demonstrates why the OP has broader context *in real life.*
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    They are, but the state has said, it doesn't matter, you must provide emergency care if you're a doctor, pure and simple, really.
    Not quite. The state said nothing about doctors not on duty in an emergency room, but so we are on the same page, please quote the relevant law or rule.

    That's a false dichotomy, and as such invalid on its face.
    Not really, as it is the natural next step in that line of reasoning.

    Again, I point to the delusion that one must feel, thinking that everyone must be accepting of homosexuality.
    The delusion if any must be entirely yours, as not I or anyone else has asked anyone and you in particular to accept anything.

    The truth is that, not everyone agrees with your lifestyle choice
    No the truth is that you know nothing about my lifestyle nor is ti the topic of this discussion. So quite frankly I do not give a crap about who does or does not agree with it. Now if you can stop with the delusions, as you put it, can you remain on topic?

    Rhetoric aside, do you not interview a doctor before choosing them? For that matter, do you not interview any one person providing a service? I do all the time.
    Perhaps if you took the effort to familiarize yourself with all aspects of the issue, you too could realize that the doctor in question has seen them in a pre-natal visit. So clearly the doctor had a change of heart subsequently. By the way, I am curious, do you ask your doctor about sexual preferences, inclinations, likes of oral sex and usage of toys, locations and positions, number of partners etc. etc. I'd love to know how well you fare with that.

    Again, this was not an emergency situation so your analogy fails.
    No one said it was and there is little if any difference from a faith perspective.

    Because the simple truth is that not everyone thinks homosexuals are as wholesome as some would lead you to believe.
    Good for them and BS. Were you ever asked to partake?

  10. #310
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    She specifically stated that it was because she objected on religious grounds. And that is recognized and protected under the law. Not liking an imaginary lifestyle is not protected.

    It's not about whether or not the kid was just handed off to a partner. It's about doctors being allowed to refuse treatment based on their religious beliefs.

    That's the whole thing, in a nutshell. People like yourself choosing to minimize it just because there was a safety net (partner) for the child in this case by no means indicates that there will be for other situations where doctors refuse service due to their religious beliefs. So the legitimacy of her actions will be examined by the courts so that laws or policies can be put in place to address such situations in the future.

    Feel free to ignore the part in blue. You already said that you dont feel it's relevant to the OP. I wrote it because it demonstrates why the OP has broader context *in real life.*
    Yes, I know Lursa. The laws say you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation. And somewhere in this world there may be a rogue doctor who tries it and someone dies. That isn't what I'm arguing. What I'm pointing out is that nobody cares about the baby, the baby's care, or that the baby had to see another doctor in the same practice. People are pissed because someone has religious beliefs that make her oppose gay marriage.

    In other words, she could have refused to see this baby for any reason, as long as it wasn't based on her religion. I'm a completely non-religious person myself and I support gay marriage, but I also don't get dramatic over those who don't feel as I do.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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