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Thread: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientation

  1. #261
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Who says? Or, who made the law or rules that say the fireman or group, cannot refuse to put out a lesbian's house fire based on their religious beliefs?

    Some communities only have volunteer fire depts. I grew up in one, my dad was one of them. I can imagine a small self-righteous conservative group refusing to do so based on their religious beliefs. Or more likely, a couple of cops showing up to a gay domestic abuse situation and walking away.

    I agree that it's been established that they cannot (probably anyway)...but it has to be established. As it does here in this case for docs in MI....obviously, since it just happened and could happen in less safe circumstances.




    How do you know that a doc wouldnt refuse to help in an emergency situation? Do we wait until a kid dies to examine the issue....in the courts if necessary? Or see that there are people like this in professions with life or death responsibilities, see that they do indeed choose to exercise their religious objections, and create the laws and guidelnes BEFORE someone dies? In reality, it would protect both the professionals and the patients/victims.
    Who says what?

    And how did we get from a prescheduled baby wellness exam to emergency fires, anyway?

    Or are you saying that it's happening in hospitals where doctors are turning away patients because of religious beliefs? Because if that's happening, then someone should start filing some reports with authorities. It isn't happening here in my state that I heard of
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  2. #262
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    There were alternative doctors. This wasn't an emergency situation. And in a group of doctors sharing a practice, any one of them can see a patient. That's why they have group practices.

    This isn't about Plan B or abortions. Nobody got hurt here. And I don't know where there was any brow beating or humiliation? The doctor didn't say anything denigrating that I saw.

    And they went public with this story, did they not? So they're humiliated, and they decide to humiliate themselves even more by having it be discussed everywhere? Interesting.
    But what if someday there isn't? What happens then? The same thing we've seen with Plan B (which has nothing to do with abortion -- I wish people would quit that). And most people in this thread would be perfectly happy to allow that, seeing as how they think doctors have an inherent right to refuse anyone for any reason, regardless of whether an in-house replacement can be found or not.

    You don't think it's humiliating for a doctor to tell you, basically, that you're so incredibly sinful and impure that they won't even see your child for fear of making themselves unclean just by being around them? Really? The implication isn't exactly subtle. Just because they cloaked it in passive-agressive niceties doesn't make the statement any less clear.

    Regardless of whether a replacement can be found, you should be fired on the spot for subjecting a patient to that. You'd be fired from any other job for doing that to a client. Yet somehow, not doctors?

    Going public isn't humiliating to them, obviously. It is probably empowering to feel they're trying to do something about this and prevent it from happening to someone else's child.

    Although, unfortunately, in a culture that is more supportive of bigots than gay people, probably ultimately futile.

  3. #263
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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    I am not asking you to join anything. On the contrary I'd prefer you to not be on any wagon with me.

    Neither do I, and it is irrelevant.

    I do not care who you dislike or like, nor am I asking to to like or dislike anyone. The issue here is bigotry of a particular doctor and you condone it. It is as simple as that.
    I have no idea why you keep posting to me. I don't know where this "like or dislike" you came from. This is a message board. I'm not posting to like or dislike people.

    But feel free to post one more emotional post. I'm not going to read it. I'm posting about the subject of this thread, which is a baby being seen by a doctor's partner because the doctor didn't want to work with the baby's gay parents. Happy Friday.
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  4. #264
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    So you would deny firemen the same freedom you advocate for this doctor because you do want to save your house. How noble of you.
    Firemen have watched homes burn down because they haven't paid their fire subscription/service fees. This event is not on the same level. This was a simple event of a person not feeling they could give the parents the same attention they give other families. They then gave them another doctor at the same time. The baby was never in jeopardy.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who says what?

    And how did we get from a prescheduled baby wellness exam to emergency fires, anyway?

    Or are you saying that it's happening in hospitals where doctors are turning away patients because of religious beliefs? Because if that's happening, then someone should start filing some reports with authorities. It isn't happening here in my state that I heard of
    Who says the firemen or cops have to perform their services if they object on religious grounds? It's been established...yes? By law or policy? Well then it seems such things need to be established for the medical community.

    I'm not sure you even read my post....I explained why very clearly.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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  6. #266
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who says what?

    And how did we get from a prescheduled baby wellness exam to emergency fires, anyway?

    Or are you saying that it's happening in hospitals where doctors are turning away patients because of religious beliefs? Because if that's happening, then someone should start filing some reports with authorities. It isn't happening here in my state that I heard of
    It couldn't happen in your state. New Hampshire's laws protect people from discrimination based on sexual orientation. No such protections exist in Michigan where this couple resides.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Michigan lesbian couple says pediatrician denied baby care due to sexual orientat

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post

    I do not care who you dislike or like, nor am I asking to to like or dislike anyone. The issue here is bigotry of a particular doctor and you condone it. It is as simple as that.
    May I ask you or anyone else for that matter, just exactly under what circumstances a person could not be a bigot for rejecting homosexual lifestyles? Under what circumstances would it be permissible for someone to object to sexual proclivity? Is someone a bigot, for example to avoid people that say, enjoy anal sex, or BDSM, or wife swapping, etc.. etc..? Would they too be bigoted? I'm just asking because if the answer is "well gee, I suppose someone not accepting of people that are into BDSM are not bigoted", then might I suggest that you slow down on the rhetoric that is purely designed to shame the person you're disagreeing with, and begin to debate the subject matter in a mature, more open way, and win with your ideas rather than your rhetoric.


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  8. #268
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    But what if someday there isn't? What happens then? The same thing we've seen with Plan B (which has nothing to do with abortion -- I wish people would quit that). And most people in this thread would be perfectly happy to allow that, seeing as how they think doctors have an inherent right to refuse anyone for any reason, regardless of whether an in-house replacement can be found or not.

    You don't think it's humiliating for a doctor to tell you, basically, that you're so incredibly sinful and impure that they won't even see your child for fear of making themselves unclean just by being around them? Really? The implication isn't exactly subtle. Just because they cloaked it in passive-agressive niceties doesn't make the statement any less clear.

    Regardless of whether a replacement can be found, you should be fired on the spot for subjecting a patient to that. You'd be fired from any other job for doing that to a client. Yet somehow, not doctors?

    Going public isn't humiliating to them, obviously. It is probably empowering to feel they're trying to do something about this and prevent it from happening to someone else's child.

    Although, unfortunately, in a culture that is more supportive of bigots than gay people, probably ultimately futile.
    So you think the laws are going to change? I don't.

    I didn't say anything about being related to Plan B. I mentioned abortion because you said this:

    unwanted pregnancies, and therefore either potentially insurmountable expense, or harm to the woman, potentially ending in death

    And you also mentioned Plan B.

    Where did the doctor tell the parents that they made her feel unclean?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #269
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it's not. I think we found the source of your confusion



    And I pointed out the hypocrisy of your opinion. Your disagreement is expected
    No confusion, just a difference of opinion.

  10. #270
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    Re: Bigotry is well and alive even among doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    It couldn't happen in your state. New Hampshire's laws protect people from discrimination based on sexual orientation. No such protections exist in Michigan where this couple resides.
    So where in Michigan are these dying people being turned out in the emergency rooms because of sexual orientation?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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