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Thread: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    They dont even get along with each other (the Arabs). Obama has the opportunity to lead the largest Arab coalition to ever fight-and it wont be against Israel but ISIS.

    What the world needs right now is a strong leader, and there isn't one in Obama.
    But he can't lead the fight if these nations aren't willing to fight. The world has simply failed to rally around the "war on terrorism", they expect us to go in and fight the fight. Nobody in the supposed "coalition" is willing to actually do anything. All of our supposed partners have refused to actually do anything to fight this war. They've got soothing words but no actual action and the only reason they're doing anything is that the U.S. promised them things so we don't look like we're alone in this. ISIS could be wiped out in a day if every nation on the planet sent significant forces into the Middle East with orders to shoot to kill. It just won't ever happen. These nations are just lazy.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Think of Iraq after we committed to the surge, thats what Im after. We could draw down greatly once the situation is generally calmed. We need to establish that we are committed to fighting them and in it for the long haul. That probably means decades.
    And who pays for this?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    We aren't doing enough to coerce Turkey to take a stand, the Kurds should be supported much more, they are dying in large numbers at the hands of ISIS and I think if we start training and arming the Kurds with much more potent weaponry then Turkey would be pressured into doing more than she does now.
    But that's the problem, we shouldn't have to coerce them into anything, they ought to be volunteering and they're not. It isn't America's problem to force the countries of the world to get on board, if it is, then this isn't going to be a coalition of the willing, but a coalition of the bought-off.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But that's the problem, we shouldn't have to coerce them into anything, they ought to be volunteering and they're not. It isn't America's problem to force the countries of the world to get on board, if it is, then this isn't going to be a coalition of the willing, but a coalition of the bought-off.
    The European nations are suffering more than the US as a result of Islamism but, with the exception of the UK, they have not contributed a great deal to getting the problem under greater control. This is strange, unless they have already given their future to Islam.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But he can't lead the fight if these nations aren't willing to fight. The world has simply failed to rally around the "war on terrorism", they expect us to go in and fight the fight. Nobody in the supposed "coalition" is willing to actually do anything. All of our supposed partners have refused to actually do anything to fight this war. They've got soothing words but no actual action and the only reason they're doing anything is that the U.S. promised them things so we don't look like we're alone in this. ISIS could be wiped out in a day if every nation on the planet sent significant forces into the Middle East with orders to shoot to kill. It just won't ever happen. These nations are just lazy.
    Of course we would like to see other governments do more to fight jihadists. But the ones in Iraq and Syria are not pushovers, and whatever forces confront them there have to be strong enough, and skilled enough, so there is no question about winning any fight. This president should have left behind a powerful peacekeeping force in Iraq, like the one the U.S. has maintained in South Korea for sixty years, but somewhat smaller. One very competent study estimated the force needed at about 25,000 total.

    About half this number would be made up of three Army Combat Aviation Brigades dispersed to several bases, and a few thousand special forces working with whatever local infantry units could be formed. The other half would be various units defending and supplying the bases, maintaining equipment, and supporting the combat force in other ways. Only about one-fourth of the total number would have assignments that would involve them in combat. The centerpiece of this force would be quick-reaction units of helicopter-borne infantry, about 1,200 in all, on call at several bases and very heavily supported by armed helicopters and other aircraft.

    What we are seeing now is the start of a much smaller effort whose main element is the 3d Armored Brigade Combat Team of the 4th Infantry Division. This brigade, which will take some time to reach Kuwait from Colorado, is not nearly as mobile as the aviation brigades suggested in the study, but it is much heavier than one of them. It normally would have, for example, eighteen 155mm. howitzers, several dozen armored fighting vehicles, and as many as a hundred heavily armored main battle tanks.

    This is not a quick-reaction force--it would not be able to pursue jihadists in pickup trucks very well, or rush to reinforce local fighters who had come under fire. The idea behind it seems to be to give the put the smallest possible number of U.S. servicemen in harm's way while giving them the most possible protection.
    Last edited by matchlight; 02-19-15 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Of course we would like to see other governments do more to fight jihadists. But the ones in Iraq and Syria are not pushovers, and whatever forces confront them there have to be strong enough, and skilled enough, so there is no question about winning any fight. This president should have left behind a powerful peacekeeping force in Iraq, like the one the U.S. has maintained in South Korea for sixty years, but somewhat smaller. One very competent study estimated the force needed at about 25,000 total.

    About half this number would be made up of three Army Combat Aviation Brigades dispersed to several bases, and a few thousand special forces working with whatever local infantry units could be formed. The other half would be various units defending and supplying the bases, maintaining equipment, and supporting the combat force in other ways. Only about one-fourth of the total number would have assignments that would involve them in combat. The centerpiece of this force would be quick-reaction units of helicopter-borne infantry, about 1,200 in all, on call at several bases and very heavily supported by armed helicopters and other aircraft.

    What we are seeing now is the start of a much smaller effort whose main element is the 3d Armored Brigade Combat Team of the 4th Infantry Division. This brigade, which will take some time to reach Kuwait from Colorado, is not nearly as mobile as the aviation brigades suggested in the study, but it is much heavier than one of them. It normally would have, for example, eighteen 155mm. howitzers, several dozen armored fighting vehicles, and as many as a hundred heavily armored main battle tanks.

    This is not a quick-reaction force--it would not be able to pursue jihadists in pickup trucks very well, or rush to reinforce local fighters who had come under fire. The idea behind it seems to be to give the put the smallest possible number of U.S. servicemen in harm's way while giving them the most possible protection.
    The "surge" in Iraq was hugely successful and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why another can't take place, perhaps in the form of 'shock and awe' as well. This responding in dribs and drabs only puts the lives of the US Military and others at risk, while not achieving a great deal. And while all this is going on there is still talk of closing Gitmo and releasing more Islamic terrorists.

    None of this appears to make any practical or tactical sense.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is your best shot?
    Nope. Not needed with you.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The "surge" in Iraq was hugely successful and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why another can't take place, perhaps in the form of 'shock and awe' as well. This responding in dribs and drabs only puts the lives of the US Military and others at risk, while not achieving a great deal. And while all this is going on there is still talk of closing Gitmo and releasing more Islamic terrorists.

    None of this appears to make any practical or tactical sense.
    The problem is that enough Americans thought this man was wonderful to elect him president--twice. Apparently it did not occur to many of them that his father was a Muslim; his stepfather was a Muslim; he attended Muslim schools; he had a Muslim roommate at Occidental College; one of his closest friends in Chicago was a great admirer of Yasser Arafat and a former PLO propagandist; and that his preacher of twenty years was sympathetic to Black Muslims and a great friend of Louis Farrakhan.

    I have no doubt that Barack Hussein Obama feels much more sympathetic to foreign Muslims than he does to the men who founded the country whose interests he is supposed to be defending. That is exactly why he has been bowing and scraping to foreign Muslims ever since he first became president. It is the reason he refuses to admit what is obvious to most people in the civilized world--that Islamic jihadists, far from having nothing to do with Islam, are directly inspired by the most orthodox Islamic texts.

    Their religion, Islam, was founded by a brutal warrior who thought nothing of subjugating and murdering various peoples by the thousands, if they did not adopt his beliefs. These modern jihadists are only taking Mohammed's views more literally than most Muslims. They are members of a cult of cruelty and murder that celebrates violence for its own sake. In this sense they have something in common with the ancient cult of thuggee in India, although they have infested more of the earth than the thugs ever did, and have more sympathizers. I think nothing would discredit Islamic jihadists more than exposing their military weakness. And killing them--and their sympathizers, if they interfere--on a scale that makes their own efforts look puny would show just how weak they are in real warfare.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But that's the problem, we shouldn't have to coerce them into anything, they ought to be volunteering and they're not. It isn't America's problem to force the countries of the world to get on board, if it is, then this isn't going to be a coalition of the willing, but a coalition of the bought-off.
    I completely agree the bolded - but what you have to realise is that Turkey professes to be part of NATO, wants to be seen as an ally and seen as progressive.

    Turkey shouldn't need to be pushed but that's where we are.

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    Re: ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I completely agree the bolded - but what you have to realise is that Turkey professes to be part of NATO, wants to be seen as an ally and seen as progressive.

    Turkey shouldn't need to be pushed but that's where we are.
    They used to be "progressive", they've become increasingly religious recently. Religion ruins everything. In fact, most of the Middle East was "progressive" until the late 70s, after which it became a religious cesspool.

    Iran Before After.jpg
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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