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ISIS reportedly burns 45 people alive

Grant said:
So beheading all these people, burning them alive and raping and murdering children, is just a cunning plan to get the western democracies involved?
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"And yet the risks of escalation are enormous. The biggest proponent of an American invasion is the Islamic State itself. The provocative videos, in which a black-hooded executioner addresses President Obama by name, are clearly made to draw America into the fight. An invasion would be a huge propaganda victory for jihadists worldwide: irrespective of whether they have given baya’a to the caliph, they all believe that the United States wants to embark on a modern-day Crusade and kill Muslims. Yet another invasion and occupation would confirm that suspicion, and bolster recruitment. Add the incompetence of our previous efforts as occupiers, and we have reason for reluctance. The rise of ISIS, after all, happened only because our previous occupation created space for Zarqawi and his followers. Who knows the consequences of another botched job?" What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

What an evil guy that Osama was!
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I agree

But we're going to have the last laugh. We'll just let keep murdering people and then watch in on the internet.
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Huh?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
"And yet the risks of escalation are enormous. The biggest proponent of an American invasion is the Islamic State itself. The provocative videos, in which a black-hooded executioner addresses President Obama by name, are clearly made to draw America into the fight. An invasion would be a huge propaganda victory for jihadists worldwide: irrespective of whether they have given baya’a to the caliph, they all believe that the United States wants to embark on a modern-day Crusade and kill Muslims. Yet another invasion and occupation would confirm that suspicion, and bolster recruitment. Add the incompetence of our previous efforts as occupiers, and we have reason for reluctance. The rise of ISIS, after all, happened only because our previous occupation created space for Zarqawi and his followers. Who knows the consequences of another botched job?" What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic
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If carpet bombing ISIS is a victory for ISIS then I say let them have it.
Huh?
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That's about what we are doing now.
 
Its very interesting right now, I am in Turkey need the Iraq border and the conversations about ISIS are everywhere. The biggest threat for many Turks isn't military its completely social issues, basically how do muslim/arab countries combat the propaganda from ISIS which thus far has been very successful in targeting disenfranchised youths. Over the past couple of weeks we have seen small Islamic groups pledge allegiance to ISIS and carry out attacks in their name with no actual contact with the group. This is unlike any other past terror group like Al-Qaida who relied heavily on networks and direct contact, ISIS seem to understand the importance of social media better than any other group and they are successfully targeting these "bedroom fanatics". The Muslim world had a real crisis on its hands and they are going to need a strong leadership/message if they are going to stop this outbreak .
 
Grant said:
If carpet bombing ISIS is a victory for ISIS then I say let them have it.
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This is not a conventional force. This is a force that uses bombing, and invasions to their advantage. We have been in a War on Terror for the past 14+ years. The only thing we have seen during this "war on terror" is a drastic increase in terror. Terror groups have seen their ranks increase, they have seen their funds increase, they are now even taking over states. The only thing this war on terror has done is increase terror. If you think we can realistically kill our way out of this war, the recent history proves that wrong. We cannot win a war on a tactic.

That's about what we are doing now.
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How so?
 
Higgins86 said:
Its very interesting right now, I am in Turkey need the Iraq border and the conversations about ISIS are everywhere. The biggest threat for many Turks isn't military its completely social issues, basically how do muslim/arab countries combat the propaganda from ISIS which thus far has been very successful in targeting disenfranchised youths. Over the past couple of weeks we have seen small Islamic groups pledge allegiance to ISIS and carry out attacks in their name with no actual contact with the group. This is unlike any other past terror group like Al-Qaida who relied heavily on networks and direct contact, ISIS seem to understand the importance of social media better than any other group and they are successfully targeting these "bedroom fanatics". The Muslim world had a real crisis on its hands and they are going to need a strong leadership/message if they are going to stop this outbreak .
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The bedroom fanatics will come around once ISIS isn't the baddest boy on the block. We need to take them down a peg.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
"And yet the risks of escalation are enormous. The biggest proponent of an American invasion is the Islamic State itself. The provocative videos, in which a black-hooded executioner addresses President Obama by name, are clearly made to draw America into the fight. An invasion would be a huge propaganda victory for jihadists worldwide: irrespective of whether they have given baya’a to the caliph, they all believe that the United States wants to embark on a modern-day Crusade and kill Muslims. Yet another invasion and occupation would confirm that suspicion, and bolster recruitment. Add the incompetence of our previous efforts as occupiers, and we have reason for reluctance. The rise of ISIS, after all, happened only because our previous occupation created space for Zarqawi and his followers. Who knows the consequences of another botched job?" What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic


I agree


Huh?
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So we go in an put bullets in their face, and then we stay after. This isn't an insurmountable task by any means. Courage...
 
US Conservative said:
The bedroom fanatics will come around once ISIS isn't the baddest boy on the block. We need to take them down a peg.
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I think the only way to end this cycle is for the Arab world to step up. Their inability to defend themselves is partially the West's fault dating back to my own countries domination of the middle east in the 20th century and most recently NATO's presence in the region. If young Muslims start to see more countries like Jordan take a stand then they will have a new " fight", it can't be European boots or US boots on the ground and it should not be our bombs because that's what they want. Saudi Arabia are sitting on a massive amount of firepower and its time they stepped up, if they wont I say we let them rot.
 
Higgins86 said:
I think the only way to end this cycle is for the Arab world to step up. Their inability to defend themselves is partially the West's fault dating back to my own countries domination of the middle east in the 20th century and most recently NATO's presence in the region. If young Muslims start to see more countries like Jordan take a stand then they will have a new " fight", it can't be European boots or US boots on the ground and it should not be our bombs because that's what they want. Saudi Arabia are sitting on a massive amount of firepower and its time they stepped up, if they wont I say we let them rot.
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They dont even get along with each other (the Arabs). Obama has the opportunity to lead the largest Arab coalition to ever fight-and it wont be against Israel but ISIS.

What the world needs right now is a strong leader, and there isn't one in Obama.
 
US Conservative said:
They dont even get along with each other (the Arabs). Obama has the opportunity to lead the largest Arab coalition to ever fight-and it wont be against Israel but ISIS.

What the world needs right now is a strong leader, and there isn't one in Obama.
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Obama's response to ISIS has been laughable at best however personally I would rather see America engaged in Europe especially with Russia poking their nose about and thus far the EU has been completely inept at handling Putin. I notice that the US moved a dozen A-10's to Germany this month, for training they say....
 
US Conservative said:
So we go in an put bullets in their face, and then we stay after. This isn't an insurmountable task by any means. Courage...
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So we "stay after"? How long do you want to occupy this country? How long do you want to "stay after"? Man you make it sound so easy. Occupying a country, sounds easy.... Especially in the face of resistance....
 
Higgins86 said:
Obama's response to ISIS has been laughable at best however personally I would rather see America engaged in Europe especially with Russia poking their nose about and thus far the EU has been completely inept at handling Putin. I notice that the US moved a dozen A-10's to Germany this month, for training they say....
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At the time being I think ISIS is the greater threat as an unstable ME is going to be a constant problem (as we see).
However, I also agree we should be increasing our presence and certainly talking tougher with Russia. We also need to help our allies in eastern and central europe continue to arm up.

Putin may get the message, maybe not.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So we "stay after"? How long do you want to occupy this country? How long do you want to "stay after"? Man you make it sound so easy. Occupying a country, sounds easy.... Especially in the face of resistance....
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How would you handle ISIS? I'm not a fan of occupation myself but would be interested to hear your idea for an alternative.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So we "stay after"? How long do you want to occupy this country? How long do you want to "stay after"? Man you make it sound so easy. Occupying a country, sounds easy.... Especially in the face of resistance....
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Think of Iraq after we committed to the surge, thats what Im after. We could draw down greatly once the situation is generally calmed. We need to establish that we are committed to fighting them and in it for the long haul. That probably means decades.
 
Higgins86 said:
I think the only way to end this cycle is for the Arab world to step up. Their inability to defend themselves is partially the West's fault dating back to my own countries domination of the middle east in the 20th century and most recently NATO's presence in the region. If young Muslims start to see more countries like Jordan take a stand then they will have a new " fight", it can't be European boots or US boots on the ground and it should not be our bombs because that's what they want. Saudi Arabia are sitting on a massive amount of firepower and its time they stepped up, if they wont I say we let them rot.
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Yes of course, your own country's fault, your DOMINATION (as you confess in your post) of the Middle East and a couple centuries of imperialism in which you raped and vandalised and exploited every ****ing thing you could lift from three fourths of the world, and now you stand up here and point a finger of ****ing blame. How about a little humility for a change, an apology and a leg up for the lives you've destroyed for so long. Maybe its time for the ****ing UK to sit down, shut the **** up and leave the rest of the world alone, hear? Do you hear??
 
Montecresto said:
Yes of course, your own country's fault, your DOMINATION (as you confess in your post) of the Middle East and a couple centuries of imperialism in which you raped and vandalised and exploited every ****ing thing you could lift from three fourths of the world, and now you stand up here and point a finger of ****ing blame. How about a little humility for a change, an apology and a leg up for the lives you've destroyed for so long. Maybe its time for the ****ing UK to sit down, shut the **** up and leave the rest of the world alone, hear? Do you hear??
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You mean like in 1940 when the UK was the only country in the fight against the Nazis? Should the UK of sat down then?

The middle east has had its issues with western involvement however imperialism ended a long time ago, the Arab nations have been very busy getting rich and as I said before arming themselves. Maybe its time they stepped up?
 
Higgins86 said:
How would you handle ISIS? I'm not a fan of occupation myself but would be interested to hear your idea for an alternative.
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Actively send funds to arm the Kurds. Kurdish groups should be YPJ, YPG, and the PYD. I also believe troops should be in Iraq to only train Iraqi troops on the basis of that they will allow the establishment of a Kurdish state, and these troops should only remain there based on the Iraqi Parliaments agreement. I also think we should actively promote the allowment of Sunnis to enter the government and those who were once apart of the Ba'athist party to re-enter the Iraqi government. I also think we should enter into direct negotiations with the Syrian government, and Iranian government on how to combat this group. I think if anything we need to promote the direct regions to combat this group. We should not be "leading" this combat opposition. Those who are are a direct neighbor threat should be leading this counterinsurgency. Saudi, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Qatar, Lebanon, etc. I also believe that there are any clear links to states in any region, that show links to ISIS, and the Al-Nusra front we should immediately halt trade and economic talks with those countries until they clearly end those links and connections. I also believe we should end the training (which has been going on since 2011) with the "moderate rebels" within Syria. Many of these "moderate rebels" are working with many of these terrorist groups. We need to show the Syrian government that we are willing to work with them to combat groups such as ISIS and Al-Nusra. Our indirect support for these groups (which indirectly come from many of these "moderate rebels") only destabilizes the region more and causes more war
 
Montecresto said:
Yes of course, your own country's fault, your DOMINATION (as you confess in your post) of the Middle East and a couple centuries of imperialism in which you raped and vandalised and exploited every ****ing thing you could lift from three fourths of the world, and now you stand up here and point a finger of ****ing blame. How about a little humility for a change, an apology and a leg up for the lives you've destroyed for so long. Maybe its time for the ****ing UK to sit down, shut the **** up and leave the rest of the world alone, hear? Do you hear??
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Whats with the attitude? We all know that the ME was a bastion of peace and prosperity before colonialism, dont we?
 
US Conservative said:
Think of Iraq after we committed to the surge, thats what Im after. We could draw down greatly once the situation is generally calmed. We need to establish that we are committed to fighting them and in it for the long haul. That probably means decades.
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Oh boy! Occupying Iraq for decades! What could go wrong!? ( I mean even tho during the surge terrorists attacks drastically increased, and during the time of the occupation terrorist attacks did not decrease,and jihadist group recruitment increased!)
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Actively send funds to arm the Kurds. Kurdish groups should be YPJ, YPG, and the PYD. I also believe troops should be in Iraq to only train Iraqi troops on the basis of that they will allow the establishment of a Kurdish state, and these troops should only remain there based on the Iraqi Parliaments agreement. I also think we should actively promote the allowment of Sunnis to enter the government and those who were once apart of the Ba'athist party to re-enter the Iraqi government. I also think we should enter into direct negotiations with the Syrian government, and Iranian government on how to combat this group. I think if anything we need to promote the direct regions to combat this group. We should not be "leading" this combat opposition. Those who are are a direct neighbor threat should be leading this counterinsurgency. Saudi, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Qatar, Lebanon, etc. I also believe that there are any clear links to states in any region, that show links to ISIS, and the Al-Nusra front we should immediately halt trade and economic talks with those countries until they clearly end those links and connections. I also believe we should end the training (which has been going on since 2011) with the "moderate rebels" within Syria. Many of these "moderate rebels" are working with many of these terrorist groups. We need to show the Syrian government that we are willing to work with them to combat groups such as ISIS and Al-Nusra. Our indirect support for these groups (which indirectly come from many of these "moderate rebels") only destabilizes the region more and causes more war
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What makes you think the Syrians want to work with us after Obama called for Assad to step down and then started aiding people to oust him?
What if a solely arab coalition cant or wont fight, or is losing? Then what?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Oh boy! Occupying Iraq for decades! What could go wrong!? ( I mean even tho during the surge terrorists attacks drastically increased, and during the time of the occupation terrorist attacks did not decrease,and jihadist group recruitment increased!)
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Thats funny, from your interpretation things got worse after the surge. Hint, they got worse after Obama pulled out for politics.
 
Higgins86 said:
You mean like in 1940 when the UK was the only country in the fight against the Nazis? Should the UK of sat down then?

The middle east has had its issues with western involvement however imperialism ended a long time ago, the Arab nations have been very busy getting rich and as I said before arming themselves. Maybe its time they stepped up?
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Imperialism has never ended.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Actively send funds to arm the Kurds. Kurdish groups should be YPJ, YPG, and the PYD. I also believe troops should be in Iraq to only train Iraqi troops on the basis of that they will allow the establishment of a Kurdish state, and these troops should only remain there based on the Iraqi Parliaments agreement. I also think we should actively promote the allowment of Sunnis to enter the government and those who were once apart of the Ba'athist party to re-enter the Iraqi government. I also think we should enter into direct negotiations with the Syrian government, and Iranian government on how to combat this group. I think if anything we need to promote the direct regions to combat this group. We should not be "leading" this combat opposition. Those who are are a direct neighbor threat should be leading this counterinsurgency. Saudi, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Qatar, Lebanon, etc. I also believe that there are any clear links to states in any region, that show links to ISIS, and the Al-Nusra front we should immediately halt trade and economic talks with those countries until they clearly end those links and connections. I also believe we should end the training (which has been going on since 2011) with the "moderate rebels" within Syria. Many of these "moderate rebels" are working with many of these terrorist groups. We need to show the Syrian government that we are willing to work with them to combat groups such as ISIS and Al-Nusra. Our indirect support for these groups (which indirectly come from many of these "moderate rebels") only destabilizes the region more and causes more war
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Helping the Kurds is key I agree my only worry is with Turkey and how they will react to a potential free Kurdish state which could potentially happen especially if we arm them/ fund them. Another worry with that is that if were to support the Kurds we could potentially see Iraq break up as each region looks to defend its borders and its own cultural identity.
I like most of your points except negotiation with the Assad government, Don't you think that given the weapons he has used and the brutal tactics he has been implementing that the West could possibly discredit itself by entering talks with them? Especially given the relationship they have with Russia?
 
US Conservative said:
Thats funny, from your interpretation things got worse after the surge. Hint, they got worse after Obama pulled out for politics.
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This only shows how truly partisan you are, and how your agenda is only to lay blames at one presidents feet.
 
US Conservative said:
Whats with the attitude? We all know that the ME was a bastion of peace and prosperity before colonialism, dont we?
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Imperial/colonial powers, as I said, for a couple centuries, raping and vandalising the planet, coming around now and blaming people for not having their **** together. I think that's a bit sick.
 
Montecresto said:
Imperialism has never ended.
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I think the billions the Arab emirates are sitting on would argue that. But hey if you want to continue to blame the past why not get mad at the Germanic tribes that sacked Rome and put us in the dark agezs?
 
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