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Thread: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Different types of Muslims, Muslim vs. Christian, etc. Mostly ethnic, but there was some sectarian violence in there.
    I guess the Bosnian (Muslim)-Croatian (Catholic) war, the Bosnian-Serbian (Orthodox Christian) war, as well as Serbian-Croatian war could be perceived as a sectarian war also, but I would argue that it was mostly ethnic in nature nevertheless. But, different types of Muslims fought against one another in the Balkan wars of 1990's? Do you have references for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I guess the Bosnian (Muslim)-Croatian (Catholic) war, the Bosnian-Serbian (Orthodox Christian) war, as well as Serbian-Croatian war could be perceived as a sectarian war also, but I would argue that it was mostly ethnic in nature nevertheless. But, different types of Muslims fought against one another in the Balkan wars of 1990's? Do you have references for this?
    I'd have to look that up; you'd know better than I would. But yes, it was mostly ethnic in nature, you are correct.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I see U.S. intervention in the Balkans as probably the only truly humanitarian (with few if any ulterior motives) efforts that we've engaged in during my lifetime.
    That is so true.

    It is a bit disappointing that the majority of Americans would not recognize this like other NATO members do for some reason. Is it modesty? Is it that they do not want to put too much of a burden to our small country by recognizing their investment and asking for equal amounts of reciprocity? Is it media driven ignorance?

    What I usually get from Americans about that is a very distant, ignorant, and neutral position starting from: a) What? b) Where is Dardania? c) What did we **** up this time!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    That is so true.

    It is a bit disappointing that the majority of Americans would not recognize this like other NATO members do for some reason. Is it modesty? Is it that they do not want to put too much of a burden to our small country by recognizing their investment and asking for equal amounts of reciprocity? Is it media driven ignorance?

    What I usually get from Americans about that is a very distant, ignorant, and neutral position starting from: a) What? b) Where is Dardania? c) What did we **** up this time!
    I don't think it's recognized because we didn't put any boots on the ground other than a few advisors, and never needed to; therefore it Doesn't Count. Airstrikes were the extent of the American intervention, other than probably a few SpecOps missions that are classified, so it didn't happen. As far as I'm concerned, staving off a nearly full-blown genocide with virtually no American casualties was Clinton's best accomplishment as U.S. president.

    To be quite honest, I had only passing knowledge of what Dardania was before encountering you. That's basically in/near Kosovo, correct?
    Last edited by Kobie; 02-18-15 at 06:17 AM.
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I don't think it's recognized because we didn't put any boots on the ground other than a few advisors, and never needed to; therefore it Doesn't Count. Airstrikes were the extent of the American intervention, other than probably a few SpecOps missions that are classified, so it didn't happen.
    There were boots on the ground after the UN resolution . In fact the US army is still here in the camp named Bondsteel.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    There were boots on the ground after the UN resolution . In fact the US army is still here in the camp named Bondsteel.
    Well yeah; however, at the time they weren't firing too many shots. I edited my post above. Please tell me I'm right.
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Well yeah; however, at the time they weren't firing too many shots. I edited my post above. Please tell me I'm right.
    Okay

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I don't think it's recognized because we didn't put any boots on the ground other than a few advisors, and never needed to; therefore it Doesn't Count. Airstrikes were the extent of the American intervention, other than probably a few SpecOps missions that are classified, so it didn't happen. As far as I'm concerned, staving off a nearly full-blown genocide with virtually no American casualties was Clinton's best accomplishment as U.S. president.
    Yes you are right.

    I would just like to evade this topic from turning it to a Dem vs Reps issue. Clinton certainly has merits because of that, we have his statue build from bronze in our capital in Prishtina. So Clinton as a democrat is seen as a fierce politician that used force by military means to stop the cleansing under a UN resolution that posited us under Serbia.

    But republicans had a share in it too. Dubya was a very good negotiator, and during his reign we declared our independence away the UN resolution that posited us under Serbia.

    So in a step by step basis both Dems and Reps contributed. No need to neglect the US lead NATO and US lead negotiations that both contributed in our favor. I just do not want Dems or Reps not recognizing the contribution of US due to partisanship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    To be quite honest, I had only passing knowledge of what Dardania was before encountering you. That's basically in/near Kosovo, correct?
    Yes, where Dardania is can be found in my signature. The elaborate explanations why my country should no longer be called like that can be found in post 134 on that link.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Of course not.

    Especially the stakeholders that lost their ability to grow hegemony and access to the Adriatic sea, such as: Serbia, Russia, and their allies. They definitely would not see this is a positive development.
    Right, because Serbia and Russia were the only big "stakeholders" in Yugoslavia.


    This report examines the roles played by Western International Financial Institutions (IFIs), intelligence agencies, militaries and strategic interests in the break up of the Yugoslav Republic.

    Analysis

    Background

    The Yugoslav wars occurred between 1991 and 2001, and involved several conflicts leading to the breakup of Yugoslavia. The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was created at the end of World War II, and consisted of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Slovenia and Kosovo.

    Setting the Stage

    A Political and Economic Crisis

    In 1980, longtime dictator of Yugoslavia, Josip Broz Tito died, leading to a leadership crisis.

    By 1982, the Yugoslav debt had grown to 20 billion dollars, so the US Ambassador in Belgrade, Lawrence Eagleburger, created a group of individuals known as the “Friends of Yugoslavia” who organized a set of “rescue loans” by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank.[1] However, that same year, the IMF and World Bank had created a new loan agreement, entitled Structural Adjustment Programs (SAPs), which gave the IFIs total control over a country’s economic and even many political decisions. The effect of the SAPs was that they “wreaked economic and political havoc… The economic crisis threatened political stability … it also threatened to aggravate simmering ethnic tensions.”[2]


    http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/b...ugoslavia-936/
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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I do. Yugoslavia was the European equivalent of Iraq. Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, et al never should have been shoehorned into the same nation-state. Once Tito's bootheel was gone, that place went to hell with sectarian and ethnic violence.
    Not everyone would have been happy with the breakup of the United States in the 1860's had it happened. But many would have been.

    Post Tito, and pre Yugoslavian military conflict was much US/NATO/IMF interference aimed at the breakup of Yugoslavia.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Americans Increasingly See Russia as Threat, Top U.S. Enemy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh boy, it's been the Germans and the Japanese and the Soviets and the Vietnamese, and the Chinese, and the Iranians and the Iraqis and the Syrians and the Libyans and........I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out. Main beneficiary to all this continual fear mongering and conflict, the MIC.
    Tell me when was the last time that any of those nations were flying patrols so close to our borders? Or annexing sovereign territory from another country, as Russia has now done TWICE in the last few years? I know Monte you are the resident Putin fanboy, but they've sure been up to a lot of provocative actions of late.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not everyone would have been happy with the breakup of the United States in the 1860's had it happened. But many would have been.

    Post Tito, and pre Yugoslavian military conflict was much US/NATO/IMF interference aimed at the breakup of Yugoslavia.
    So all those mass graves didn't play any part in the NATO's decision then hmm?

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