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Thread: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

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    Exert: An Iraqi tribal leader said Saturday that ISIS militants are gaining ground in Anbar province, predicting a "collapse within hours" of Iraqi army forces there if tribal forces withdraw.

    So about all that progress that's been made defeating ISIS that the WH was championing a short while ago...
    If a nation with 271,000 active duty members in its military and another 500,000 plus in reserve cannot defend its own country against ragtag force less than 10% of its size, then even if all of ISIS all of a sudden dropped dead of a heart attack right where they stood, it would only be a matter of time before another group of radical Islamists took their place.

    Unless we want to maintain a perpetual surge in Iraq with a constant commitment of a 100 billion a year indefinitely, then we might as well accept that corrupt ****hole whose government is nothing but a puppet of Iran is going to end up a failed state. Our best bet is to simply contain it - much like how we had Saddam contained before the previous administration went into Iraq and created this entire mess to begin with.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I'll admit, that I doubt that we'd be in this present position with Iran were Saddam to still be in power. But regardless of your opinions of the Iraq conflict, that book was closed when the last combat troops left the country and the future of Iraq was handed over to it's people. Besides, one could easily argue that the Arab Spring has a larger part to play in attributing to ISIS, or even the failure of the Iraqi Government to work with it's Sunni brethren as had they of done so we wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Neither of those situations had one thing to do with American involvement. So you can stop with the American bashing, as it's no longer relevant to this equation.
    What would you have had us do? The Iraqis no longer wanted us there. Moreover, if we stayed they insisted our troops be subject to their courts which was entirely unacceptable. So had we stayed we would have had to stay as occupiers in a country that no longer wanted us there. Do you think that would have had a positive result?

    We left Iraq with an elected government that benefited from an insane amount of nation building and foreign aid. Moreover, we left them with a large and well armed military. How is it our fault they are so corrupt and inept they can't maintain order and defend their own country?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That's ridiculous. Had the US and other Western powers not interfered with president Assad's war on terror from the beginning, he would have crushed the terrorists operating in his country early on.
    Western support for the revolution has been modest at best, and is peanuts compared to Russian and Iranian aid to the regime. Most aid to the rebels has come from the Gulf states.
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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    If a nation with 271,000 active duty members in its military and another 500,000 plus in reserve cannot defend its own country against ragtag force less than 10% of its size, then even if all of ISIS all of a sudden dropped dead of a heart attack right where they stood, it would only be a matter of time before another group of radical Islamists took their place.

    Unless we want to maintain a perpetual surge in Iraq with a constant commitment of a 100 billion a year indefinitely, then we might as well accept that corrupt ****hole whose government is nothing but a puppet of Iran is going to end up a failed state. Our best bet is to simply contain it - much like how we had Saddam contained before the previous administration went into Iraq and created this entire mess to begin with.
    If ISIS were strictly an uprising of Sunnis against the corrupt al-Abadi Government, then I'd agree that we'd be wasting our time. The issue at hand, and what we can do, is deal with the issue in Syria and that's all I'm really advocating for at this point. Iraq's a mess and it's going to stay that way so long as they continue to have a sectarian government

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    What would you have had us do? The Iraqis no longer wanted us there. Moreover, if we stayed they insisted our troops be subject to their courts which was entirely unacceptable. So had we stayed we would have had to stay as occupiers in a country that no longer wanted us there. Do you think that would have had a positive result?

    We left Iraq with an elected government that benefited from an insane amount of nation building and foreign aid. Moreover, we left them with a large and well armed military. How is it our fault they are so corrupt and inept they can't maintain order and defend their own country?
    I don't believe I've ever made the assertion that the failure in Iraq was our doing. If I did, then that was a mistake.

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If ISIS were strictly an uprising of Sunnis against the corrupt al-Abadi Government, then I'd agree that we'd be wasting our time. The issue at hand, and what we can do, is deal with the issue in Syria and that's all I'm really advocating for at this point. Iraq's a mess and it's going to stay that way so long as they continue to have a sectarian government



    I don't believe I've ever made the assertion that the failure in Iraq was our doing. If I did, then that was a mistake.
    At this point all we could do is figure out some kind of Iran-Contra style system for secretly arming the Assad regime.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    At this point all we could do is figure out some kind of Iran-Contra style system for secretly arming the Assad regime.
    Not necessary, the Russians have been handling that part remember? Besides, if we really intend on dealing with the ISIS threat, then we have to go at it's source in Syria. And unless we're cooperating with Assad in the process (if even that just means implanting SOF forces into the Syrian Army to coordinate the air campaign), then we're going to get a lot of backlash from Russia and China as they try and say that we have territorial aspirations in Syria. Incidentally, this is why the Free Syrian Army is also a really bad idea as well.

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Not necessary, the Russians have been handling that part remember? Besides, if we really intend on dealing with the ISIS threat, then we have to go at it's source in Syria. And unless we're cooperating with Assad in the process (if even that just means implanting SOF forces into the Syrian Army to coordinate the air campaign), then we're going to get a lot of backlash from Russia and China as they try and say that we have territorial aspirations in Syria. Incidentally, this is why the Free Syrian Army is also a really bad idea as well.
    I think we screwed up when we said Assad had to go. Strongman dictators are the only way any of those countries have maintained any notion of stability.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think we screwed up when we said Assad had to go. Strongman dictators are the only way any of those countries have maintained any notion of stability.
    Wouldn't be the first time we've had to play nice to someone we weren't 100% on board with, but I agree, we made a mistake when we said that. Not because it was with bad intentions; in a perfect world, he'd of been gone and a moderate (or more importantly secular) leader would of taken it's place. But if the middle east has taught us anything over the past decade, it's that secularism isn't something that the Middle East knows very well (outside of Tunisia of course).

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    If a nation with 271,000 active duty members in its military and another 500,000 plus in reserve cannot defend its own country against ragtag force less than 10% of its size, then even if all of ISIS all of a sudden dropped dead of a heart attack right where they stood, it would only be a matter of time before another group of radical Islamists took their place.

    Unless we want to maintain a perpetual surge in Iraq with a constant commitment of a 100 billion a year indefinitely, then we might as well accept that corrupt ****hole whose government is nothing but a puppet of Iran is going to end up a failed state. Our best bet is to simply contain it - much like how we had Saddam contained before the previous administration went into Iraq and created this entire mess to begin with.
    If we laid waste, absolutely, to the islamofacists, we wouldn't have to permanently occupy the region. To paraphrase Sherman: we should make the islamofacists howl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Tribal leader: Iraqi troops in Anbar province could 'collapse within hours'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If we laid waste, absolutely, to the islamofacists, we wouldn't have to permanently occupy the region. To paraphrase Sherman: we should make the islamofacists howl.
    I am sure no one has ever thought of that.... How are you going to do that exactly without killing countless innocents in the process and thus inspire the next generation of islamists?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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