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George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

polgara said:
Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

21 souls beheaded by madmen, and we watch as they brag and swagger, and threaten Rome! Are the Christians unable to flee the violence for some reason, and so they become innocent victims to target? How sad....
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Turning the cheek.....nor waiting for it to arrive here. Isn't acceptable Lady P.
 
MMC said:
Turning the cheek.....nor waiting for it to arrive here. Isn't acceptable Lady P.
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Good morning, MMC. :2wave:


I got up a little while ago, got some coffee, and sat down to read the latest news. As usual, no good news anywhere this morning! Then I checked the weather, saw that the actual temperature is -6 outside, and mused on whether or not I should just go back to bed and ask somebody to wake me up in April!

What think you? :lamo:
 
Grant said:
In fact cutting and running from a 'sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq' has led to the problems and the thousands of lives lost we see there today. Now more American lives are in jeopardy because of Barry Obama.

You seem to be guessing at history.
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Wow. do you actually believe that? In what world was there a "Sovereign, stable state" in Iraq? The stupidity of going into Iraq without understanding the factions involved there and not recognizing the consequences of destabilizing the region is what lead to ISIS. We are going to be paying the price for GWB's actions for decades to come. You would have to be completely naïve to not understand that.
 
disneydude said:
Wow. do you actually believe that? In what world was there a "Sovereign, stable state" in Iraq? The stupidity of going into Iraq without understanding the factions involved there and not recognizing the consequences of destabilizing the region is what lead to ISIS. We are going to be paying the price for GWB's actions for decades to come. You would have to be completely naïve to not understand that.
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Well, you can believe our own NIE's on this, HRW, the UN, and nearly every credible foreign relations group producing essays on the rise of Islamic extremism that directly coincides with US intervention in the Middle East, or you can listen to a fringe right wing Canadian living in Costa Rica who thinks he has a handle on this.
 
rocket88 said:
Yeah, I'm not Bush's fan, but if it helps against ISIS I'll take it.
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That's exactly how I feel. I was completely against Bush's invasion of Iraq. I didn't like that war at all. I don't believe in attacking a country that didn't attack us first. But ISIS is a problem that isn't getting better, and at this point, anything that helps fight ISIS should be considered. We're all American and should leave petty partisanship aside.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, MMC. :2wave:


I got up a little while ago, got some coffee, and sat down to read the latest news. As usual, no good news anywhere this morning! Then I checked the weather, saw that the actual temperature is -6 outside, and mused on whether or not I should just go back to bed and ask somebody to wake me up in April!

What think you? :lamo:
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They say it will be cold here for another week to.

I noticed that many were harping at Bush Jr. But didn't want to say much about the Sheik being directed to General Petraeus and then BO's own former General Allen. Which incidentally doesn't think BO Peep and the Lost sheep are handling things appropriately with the War on ISIS.




Bush urged Abu Risha to extend his stay and meet with retired Gen. David Petraeus,

Their 10-day schedule included a meeting with a White House aide and a visit to retired Gen. John Allen (Obama’s emissary to the coalition fighting the Islamic State) at his home, as well as one-on-one meetings at the State Department and Pentagon. They arrived confident that they would be They arrived confident that they would be heard; after all, the Obama administration had made the fight against the Islamic State a priority and Allen had promised during meetings with Sunni tribesmen in October in Amman, Jordan, to pass their request for arms on to the Pentagon.

On the record, Anbar’s delegates said they were pleased by Biden’s visit. (“We’re honored that vice president took the time to see us,” Abu Risha told me.) But off the record they were bitterly disappointed. “We’re interested in fighting ISIL [Islamic State] and the administration is interested in restructuring the Iraqi government,” a delegation member said. “In the meantime, ISIL is killing our people.” (The vice president’s office did not respond to repeated requests for comment on the meeting.).....snip~

Read more: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq
 
MMC said:
They say it will be cold here for another week to.

I noticed that many were harping at Bush Jr. But didn't want to say much about the Sheik being directed to General Petraeus and then BO's own former General Allen. Which incidentally doesn't think BO Peep and the Lost sheep are handling things appropriately with the War on ISIS.




Bush urged Abu Risha to extend his stay and meet with retired Gen. David Petraeus,

Their 10-day schedule included a meeting with a White House aide and a visit to retired Gen. John Allen (Obama’s emissary to the coalition fighting the Islamic State) at his home, as well as one-on-one meetings at the State Department and Pentagon. They arrived confident that they would be They arrived confident that they would be heard; after all, the Obama administration had made the fight against the Islamic State a priority and Allen had promised during meetings with Sunni tribesmen in October in Amman, Jordan, to pass their request for arms on to the Pentagon.

On the record, Anbar’s delegates said they were pleased by Biden’s visit. (“We’re honored that vice president took the time to see us,” Abu Risha told me.) But off the record they were bitterly disappointed. “We’re interested in fighting ISIL [Islamic State] and the administration is interested in restructuring the Iraqi government,” a delegation member said. “In the meantime, ISIL is killing our people.” (The vice president’s office did not respond to repeated requests for comment on the meeting.).....snip~

Read more: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq
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Good morning MMC, do stay wrapped up. Do I understand that you're advocating the US take sides in a clearly sectarian conflict?
 
SBu said:
Perhaps in a perfect world. As it is, however, Russia/Iran/and Assad haven't been able to take care of them for a long time now, Italy/Britain/and France haven't the stomach for it, the US/Canada/and Aussies could certainly take care of Iraq, but questionable whether public opinion would allow, and if China launched operations in Indonesia, that would open up a huge can of worms for a lot of people for a long time in an already quite touchy area of the world. ...not to mention china is already engaged in its restive western provinces.

We have to ask ourselves 'what is the cost vs. benefit?' ; 'do our actions actually take steps to fix the problem, or does it exacerbate it?' ; 'are our goals achievable?' ; and 'can we afford it in real and intangible terms?'
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Mornin SBu. :2wave: These guys need to be attacked on all fronts. From soft power to hard power. By those in criminal organizations, religious organizations, as well as Nations. Also to include Mercs and Assassins and any willing to go a hunting. Then we play with Psy-ops and the propaganda game while going after what means the most to them. That would be their future and their blood. What we do is our choice. I would go with banishment to another planet. We can call it the Klingon Homeworld.

Good news.....Egypt just joined the Party and Declared War. EA Sports.....its in the Game! :lol:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/afric...lares-war-joins-coalition.html#post1064318366
 
Montecresto said:
Good morning MMC, do stay wrapped up. Do I understand that you're advocating the US take sides in a clearly sectarian conflict?
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Mornin Monte. :2wave: No need to wrap up.....I always wax hot my brutha.
flame.gif
I agree with Sisi wholeheartedly. That it will take others from outside the ME and Africa to solve the problem. With him Letting the Sunni Imams know the World is focused on them and all they do. He has started the process.
 
disneydude said:
Yeah..."Mission Accomplished"...right? You actually believe that? The reality is, Bush and his neo-con cohorts had no idea the destabilization of the region that was going to happen with their invasion. The bottom line is that ISIS exists today as a direct result of the stupidity of the Bush administration. Invading Iraq was an absolute disaster and we are still paying the price today and probably will for decades to come.
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BHO and Biden both called it a victory. Had BHO not abdicated our responsibility it would have remained one.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Monte. :2wave: No need to wrap up.....I always wax hot my brutha.
flame.gif
I agree with Sisi wholeheartedly. That it will take others from outside the ME and Africa to solve the problem. With him Letting the Sunni Imams know the World is focused on them and all they do. He has started the process.
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Lol, you big kidder. I Think your elevating the Shia above the Sunni', but I'm still not certain.
 
Montecresto said:
Lol, you big kidder. I Think your elevating the Shia above the Sunni', but I'm still not certain.
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I'm not....I haven't heard the Shia's Clerics calling on calming things down. Or talking about what they consider Islamic and of Islam. Well not in a way that would be described as a way of peace, anyways.
 
US Conservative said:
Nope, just that what you say didn't happen.
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Right, right, and the Republicans didn't take Obama to task for having taken credit for negotiating the troop withdrawal that Bush actually had done because, as we know from the mutability of the past, Bush didn't negotiate a troop withdrawal.
 
MMC said:
They say it will be cold here for another week to.

I noticed that many were harping at Bush Jr. But didn't want to say much about the Sheik being directed to General Petraeus and then BO's own former General Allen. Which incidentally doesn't think BO Peep and the Lost sheep are handling things appropriately with the War on ISIS.




Bush urged Abu Risha to extend his stay and meet with retired Gen. David Petraeus,

Their 10-day schedule included a meeting with a White House aide and a visit to retired Gen. John Allen (Obama’s emissary to the coalition fighting the Islamic State) at his home, as well as one-on-one meetings at the State Department and Pentagon. They arrived confident that they would be They arrived confident that they would be heard; after all, the Obama administration had made the fight against the Islamic State a priority and Allen had promised during meetings with Sunni tribesmen in October in Amman, Jordan, to pass their request for arms on to the Pentagon.

On the record, Anbar’s delegates said they were pleased by Biden’s visit. (“We’re honored that vice president took the time to see us,” Abu Risha told me.) But off the record they were bitterly disappointed. “We’re interested in fighting ISIL [Islamic State] and the administration is interested in restructuring the Iraqi government,” a delegation member said. “In the meantime, ISIL is killing our people.” (The vice president’s office did not respond to repeated requests for comment on the meeting.).....snip~

Read more: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq
Click to expand...

What did they expect Biden to say or do? He has very little authority, and can only go along with Obama's plans, whatever the hell they are. It's truly unfortunate that people are dying while he dithers, though, but what would they do if we weren't in the picture? These people have been killing each other long before the US was even a country, and while I hate to say it, they brought their troubles on themselves, all in the name of religion!

It's interesting that Bush is meeting with Petraeus and others, but for what purpose? All of them are retired so what good does that do? Obama is going to do what he wants to do, and he is the CiC who owns this mess that he created. Do they really think that he'll take their advice if it is offered? Not much chance of that happening, IMO, because that would indicate he might not be handling the problems correctly himself, and that would never do - but meanwhile ISIL is thumbing their nose at him while they swagger, behead people, and laugh at him! So which is worse for a person with a big ego - listening to advice or being laughed at by inferior animals? Maybe toppling those dictators who had kept the lid on the ME pressure cooker wasn't the brightest thing to do after all, huh? Too late now - it's done and we see the results! :2mad:

:rantoff:
 
polgara said:
What did they expect Biden to say or do? He has very little authority, and can only go along with Obama's plans, whatever the hell they are. It's truly unfortunate that people are dying while he dithers, though, but what would they do if we weren't in the picture? These people have been killing each other long before the US was even a country, and while I hate to say it, they brought their troubles on themselves, all in the name of religion!

It's interesting that Bush is meeting with Petraeus and others, but for what purpose? All of them are retired so what good does that do? Obama is going to do what he wants to do, and he is the CiC who owns this mess that he created. Do they really think that he'll take their advice if it is offered? Not much chance of that happening, IMO, because that would indicate he might not be handling the problems correctly himself, and that would never do - but meanwhile ISIL is thumbing their nose at him while they swagger, behead people, and laugh at him! So which is worse for a person with a big ego - listening to advice or being laughed at by inferior animals? Maybe toppling those dictators who had kept the lid on the ME pressure cooker wasn't the brightest thing to do after all, huh? Too late now - it's done and we see the results! :2mad:

:rantoff:
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Good morning Polgara, -6* eeyah! They didn't completely bring it upon themselves. Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi nor Assad gave any quarters to these filthy scum.
 
MMC said:
Mornin SBu. :2wave: These guys need to be attacked on all fronts. From soft power to hard power. By those in criminal organizations, religious organizations, as well as Nations. Also to include Mercs and Assassins and any willing to go a hunting. Then we play with Psy-ops and the propaganda game while going after what means the most to them. That would be their future and their blood. What we do is our choice. I would go with banishment to another planet. We can call it the Klingon Homeworld.

Good news.....Egypt just joined the Party and Declared War. EA Sports.....its in the Game! :lol:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/afric...lares-war-joins-coalition.html#post1064318366
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Good Morning MMC. Egypt is doing airstrikes, but again, these states must do more. I agree that IS should be attacks on all fronts by Muslim states, with us providing support and security guarantees. Egypt can take Libya, Turkey/Leb./Jordan can take Syria, Saudis can take Iraq (although looks like Iran has already beat them there), and we got Afghanistan.

When you begin to see Muslim states committing forces on the ground to battle IS in country, then you know the tide has turned in the favor of civilization.
 
SBu said:
Good Morning MMC. Egypt is doing airstrikes, but again, these states must do more. I agree that IS should be attacks on all fronts by Muslim states, with us providing support and security guarantees. Egypt can take Libya, Turkey/Leb./Jordan can take Syria, Saudis can take Iraq (although looks like Iran has already beat them there), and we got Afghanistan.

When you begin to see Muslim states committing forces on the ground to battle IS in country, then you know the tide has turned in the favor of civilization.
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Or at least has taken a baby step in that direction. The battle of savagery vs civilization is far from over, but it is at least hopeful when we see the Islamic states battling against the fanatical extremists.
 
SBu said:
Good Morning MMC. Egypt is doing airstrikes, but again, these states must do more. I agree that IS should be attacks on all fronts by Muslim states, with us providing support and security guarantees. Egypt can take Libya, Turkey/Leb./Jordan can take Syria, Saudis can take Iraq (although looks like Iran has already beat them there), and we got Afghanistan.

When you begin to see Muslim states committing forces on the ground to battle IS in country, then you know the tide has turned in the favor of civilization.
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Yeah, I know and there to Sisi is leading the way. As he went after ISIS types in the Sinai.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Or at least has taken a baby step in that direction. The battle of savagery vs civilization is far from over, but it is at least hopeful when we see the Islamic states battling against the fanatical extremists.
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I think it's the only way. When America comes rolling in with tons of military it lacks legitimacy in the ME. If/when the Muslim states begin to own it and deploy troops themselves to these trouble spots, then I think you will witness a regional shift in how it views security and responsibility. That is the only way to stomp out IS and achieve a more lasting relative peace. When Muslims stand up and say 'no' to extremist barbarians.
 
MMC said:
Yeah, I know and there to Sisi is leading the way. As he went after ISIS types in the Sinai.
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Indeed and he should be commended for it. Hopefully our administration quits being butt hurt about the MB being ousted and begins to appreciate the bigger picture.
 
disneydude said:
This is a good place to start. It lays out very clearly (From Bush's own staff members) how Cheney and Rumsfield had tried the previous decade trying to convince the first Bush to implement their neo-con agenda to no avail. They needed a pawn in the whitehouse....someone with the intelligence of a thimble and they got that in GWB. It shows very clearly the media barrage that occurred after 911 where the Bush administration layed the groundwork to "justify" the Iraq invasion, linking it rather tenuously to 911.
But...I don't know why I'm wasting my time. People like you will continue to believe what you want to believe. "Mission Accomlished".....right?
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That's PROOF because you say so? Obama lies and we all have proof of that. But I have not seen one shred of evidence that Bush lied about anything leading up to the Iraq war. I await your PROOF.
 
Born Free said:
That's PROOF because you say so? Obama lies and we all have proof of that. But I have not seen one shred of evidence that Bush lied about anything leading up to the Iraq war. I await your PROOF.
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Oh, you've seen it, you've just dismissed it.
 
disneydude said:
This is a good place to start. It lays out very clearly (From Bush's own staff members) how Cheney and Rumsfield had tried the previous decade trying to convince the first Bush to implement their neo-con agenda to no avail. They needed a pawn in the whitehouse....someone with the intelligence of a thimble and they got that in GWB. It shows very clearly the media barrage that occurred after 911 where the Bush administration layed the groundwork to "justify" the Iraq invasion, linking it rather tenuously to 911.
But...I don't know why I'm wasting my time. People like you will continue to believe what you want to believe. "Mission Accomlished".....right?
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It is true that the invasion of Iraq was a goal from the start. It is not true that Cheney and Rumsfeld directed GWB. He was always firmly in charge, and a highly intelligent man -- Dem propaganda notwithstanding.
 
disneydude said:
By the way....the war was never "won" there. There never truly was a "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED". GWB created chaos in the region without recognizing what would happen when he and his neo-con bed buddies were done. ISIS has risen as a DIRECT result of the destabilization in the region caused by Bush's originally failed policies. You can try to blame Obama all you want, but
the buck stops with the Bush administration on this one friend.
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The only country on this planet that gained anything from G.W.Bush's unnecessary war in Iraq (Which was no threat to the USA.) was Iran and they're mighty grateful to Bush for it. :roll:
 
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