Page 52 of 62 FirstFirst ... 2425051525354 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 520 of 615

Thread: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

  1. #511
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,975

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Political bull**** aimed at the US.

    I didnt see you telling me what our victory was....what we 'accomplished?'
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #512
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And this might have been a workable encouragement in 2008 but that seven years later that policy has long gone stale.
    Continue to put your partisan bias on display for all to see.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #513
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,387

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why not point out the 'lie' if you are so confident this occurred? Be specific, in your own words, when this lie occured. Can you do that?
    I think the worst "willful deception" was during GW's 2003 State of the Union. It was already well know that there was no "uranium from Africa" and the tubes were not suitable for nuclear uses.

    It was just bad intelligence! Everyone was fooled! You can’t say Bush “lied” about Iraq pursuing WMDs or about the Saddam Hussein regime having ties to 9/11 because he was just echoing what the intelligence community said, which was wrong.

    This is a line of argumentation that Bush administration officials and Iraq war boosters have been clinging to ever since it became clear that U.S. troops would found no mobile biological weapons labs and no Mutual Admiration Society correspondence between Saddam and Osama. “We were wrong just like everyone else” isn’t a particularly compelling argument, though I suppose that if you’re responsible for one of the modern era’s most significant foreign policy disasters, “shared incompetence” is a more appealing excuse than “willful deception.”
    But the Bush administration absolutely did engage in willful deception. Quite a bit of it, in fact. It’s one thing to simply repeat an intelligence assessment that is wrong, and quite another to take a disputed, credibly challenged intelligence assessment and state it as uncontested fact. That’s a lie, and senior Bush officials did it often. There’s no better example of this than the aluminum tubes.

    If you were following politics in the six months or so leading up to the actual invasion of Iraq, then you probably remember how much importance senior Bush administration officials put on the fact that Iraq had tried to obtain a certain type of aluminum tube that was, per those same officials, only suitable for use in uranium centrifuges. The tubes were at the heart of their case that Saddam Hussein was pursuing a nuclear weapons program, and had been cited as evidence of Hussein’s intentions by Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, and Colin Powell. They even earned a mention in George W. Bush’s now infamous 2003 state of the union address:

    The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

    Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.

    Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.

    The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary, he is deceiving.

    This was all wrong. And they knew at the time that the intelligence regarding those tubes was nowhere near as strong as they made it out to be. A number of intelligence agencies believed that the tubes were, in fact, made for uranium enrichment. There were, however, a number of dissenting views, including from the State Department and the intelligence arm of the Department of Energy, the agency responsible for maintaining the United States’ nuclear arsenal (i.e. the people who actually know this stuff). DOE determined that the tubes were completely impractical for use in uranium enrichment, and were probably intended for use in conventional rockets. The State Department came to a similar conclusion.

    Senior policymakers, including President Bush, were aware of this debate over the tubes by October 2002. But with Dick Cheney calling the shots and applying pressure where necessary, the administration disregarded the dissenting views, prioritized the assessments that aligned with their preferred policy outcome, and hid the debate from the public while offering up the tubes as incontrovertible evidence that Saddam Hussein was in the process of developing nuclear weapons.
    Yes, Bush lied about Iraq: Why are we still arguing about this? - Salon.com

  4. #514
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,923
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    There was no victory in Iraq...what history book are you re-writing? We ****ed the country up worse than it was before...for no reason...and then had to leave because we could only make it worse, not better. We had no 'solution' to fix Iraq. And it was ****ed up beyond fixing before Obama took over.
    You should read more. By 2009 Iraq was largely stabilized and had decent prospects. Even BHO and Biden proclaimed victory. Then they threw it away.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #515
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,582

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Just because you believe the Bush's excuse of ignorance of all the evidence that said there were no WMD's and his claim that he only believed the lies told by "curveball" and others does not mean he didn't lie. Ignorance is a poor excuse and far too easy to fake especially for a thick head like Bush. Who could doubt that this is the face of a clueless idiot? It was the perfect cover for a foreign policy agenda riddled with lies and false claims.
    It is not a lie to say something that you think is true, even if it isn't. Bush did not lie when he said that Iraq had WMD. The local weather guy didn't lie when he said it would rain and it didn't. Obama didn't lie when he said we could keep our health insurance. We throw that accusation around a lot, and it is not accurate.

    So, when we say someone lied, and in fact they just made an error, are we ourselves lying? I say, no, as saying something you erroneously believe to be true is not a lie but a mistake.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  6. #516
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Political bull**** aimed at the US.

    I didnt see you telling me what our victory was....what we 'accomplished?'
    I was quoting Barack Obama and what he said. Are you saying that Barack Obama was lying when he called Iraq "Sovereign, stable, and self reliant"?

  7. #517
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,387

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Obama was completing Bush's agreement for withdrawal of troops and fulfilling a campaign promise to the American people. Bush made and signed the agreement to withdraw our troops with much fanfare before he left office. If Obama lied then so did Bush.

  8. #518
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Continue to put your partisan bias on display for all to see.
    Partisan bias? On a debate board? Who would have guessed!

  9. #519
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,923
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I think the worst "willful deception" was during GW's 2003 State of the Union. It was already well know that there was no "uranium from Africa" and the tubes were not suitable for nuclear uses.
    "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

    That statement was true.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #520
    Sage
    Lursa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Outside Seattle
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,975

    Re: George W. Bush Is Intervening in Iraq—Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You should read more. By 2009 Iraq was largely stabilized and had decent prospects. Even BHO and Biden proclaimed victory. Then they threw it away.
    It was political bull****. From both. It wasnt stabliized and the country was practically destroyed which we had to pay to fix. Many factions were still active...and causing disruption.

    They threw nothing away....we had no way to fix what we destroyed and destabilized. Our presence was not helping anything since we didnt have a plan to fix it. We never did btw....GWB didnt give a **** about 'after'....the plan was "we'll bring them democracy,' with no actual plans to do so.

    Can anyone name a country where we...or anyone else...has 'brought them democracy' successfully? I cant. You cannot force democracy on a country that is culturally not ready for it. Why did I know that in 2003 but GWB didnt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

Page 52 of 62 FirstFirst ... 2425051525354 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •